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Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions
Please tell me the differences between Beit shemesh and RBS!
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jan 10 2013, 12:06 am
Hi there all of you BS/RBS residents! I need information please!
We are hoping to make aliya in the near future and have not yet settled on the right community. We explored RBS , but DH feels it is too chareidi - we are more chardal type I would guess. (and it is quite expensive too).
We really loved Ahavat Yisrael, Rapaport schools though in RBS and we feel it is a good fit for our kids. So, now we are kicking ourselves that we did not look into Beit shemesh itself during our pilot trip Sad
I am therefore looking for lots and lots of information about Beit shemesh please.

In what ways is BS different from RBS?

Is BS a 'growing community' in terms of religious observance?

Is the community only Dati leumi, or are there chareidim there too?

What shuls have a good core group of chardal/torani type people? (For example, ladies and girls wear long skirts and long sleeves only?)Who are the rabbanim?

What schools do people send to, does everyone send to Orot, etc, or do some people send to Ahavat Yisroel in RBS? Would my kids be the only ones being bussed over there each day?

For those who keep their kids in school in Beit shemesh, can you please tell me about hte schools in BS, thank you

Is BS a totally different community to RBSA? does it have its own mikvaos, rabbanim, and do people living in BS generally not ever go to any functions/shiurim in RBS? (asking this becasue I have a number of friends in RBS, but not really any friends in Beit shemesh)

What neighborhoods should we be considering? Any idea about hte cost of rentals and home purchases in these neighborhoods?

Thanks in advance, I am eagerly waiting to read your responses.
Remember, the more information the better!
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jan 10 2013, 5:59 am
Sorry cant be of much help, but Do know that I have cousins in BS who are ultra Charedie (chassidish) that's also where you hear some of the incidents of spitting or etc. at less religious.

Don't know if the whole BS is like that.
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Isramom8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 10 2013, 6:32 am
Beit Shemesh started out about 25 years ago with Nachala Umenucha as a Chareidi community, and Bayit Umenucha as a Chareidi Chassidish community. Or the oppsosite, I forget. A lot of young couples bought there at that time. So you will definitely find familes with parents in their fourties who are Chareidi.
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vicki




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 10 2013, 6:34 am
We made aliya to RBS A this past summer. We are chardal not chareidi and this is a beautiful community for us. We send out kids - girls at this time - to Ahavat Yisrael and love it. We are still considering what to do with our son.
My kids have tons of friends. About 1/3 of their classmates are from RBS. About 1/3 (maybe more) of their classmates are from BS and about 1/3 of their classmates are from Ramat Shilo (which a part of RBS but a bit over).
Generally speaking, BS is more towards the DL than RBS A. Though you can find all kinds everywhere.
Let me know if you have any questions I can help you with.
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Liba




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 10 2013, 6:37 am
I have a cousin in BS in a very nice chardal community there. They have their own shul, neighborhood and rav.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 10 2013, 9:18 am
I think you should just find a home you can afford, and send your kids to the schools you think are best for them. Of course the shiurim and activities are open to the public and you will be welcomed into the greater anglo community no matter where exactly you live. There are DL all over, and in BS proper, it is growing a lot, so I was told.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jan 10 2013, 1:38 pm
Hi, this is the OP!

Thanks for all of your answers, you are so kind to take the time to help.

I dont think that any of those who responded so far actually live in Bet Shemesh, apart from vicki who is in the Ramah. I learned a lot about RBS during my pilot trip, it is beit shemesh itself that I am trying to learn more about. If you know anyone in BS, please feel free to PM them so that they notice this thread.

Liba, you know a chardal family there, could you please tell me which neighborhood they live in, name of shul and school?

TIA
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shabri




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 10 2013, 1:48 pm
I don't live there but have a sibling there in the Nofei Hashemesh community. I wold say they are chardali. They send their kids to Rapaport as do most of their friends.
she covers her hair, dresses tznious but will go without socks most of her friends ans the same. some do wear socks. He davens 3x/day with a minyan and goes to daf yomi. They go to Rabbi Rosner's shul.

It's a really nice community. We have spent many shabbosim there. It's not Charedi but very frum.
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Liba




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 10 2013, 1:51 pm
Sabri, that is where my cousin is as well!! They only have small children, no one in school yet. I have been to the shul for one of their brissim, but I don't remember its name. It is right there, in their neighborhood, though.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jan 10 2013, 2:25 pm
OP here

thank you shabri and liba! so, yes, I just researched a little bit about Nofei Hashemesh adn rabbi rosner. I also heard that it is probably the most expensive neighborhood in BS Sad

This might sound like a silly question, but you know how here in the states`, people do walk ten minutes to get to shul, does that option exist in BS? I mean for example if dh wanted to daven in rabbi rosner's shul and we lived ten minute walk away, would it be a big deal to daven there and try to make friends in that neighborhood IYKWIM? I am only asjking this because I have not been able to get any more info yet about BS, and that is the only chardal type nieghborhood that I have heard of so far. I do not need a homogenous neighborhood, but I do also need enough people around me who have a similar viewpoint in life to me, in order to feel comfortable.

Please keep it coming, thanks so much.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jan 10 2013, 11:46 pm
OP here.

just bumping up this post.

another question for anyone who might know abuot beit shemesh: is it vital to have a car there, or is there a good bus system like in RBS? How far away from the religious neighborhoods is everything like supermarkets, doctors etc?
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shabri




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 11 2013, 1:30 am
Yes people walk to Rabbi Rosner's Shuls. I kow some people who live in the apartments on Gad who go there. I know 1 person in the neighborhood who doesn't have a car. She manages but itis difficult. Don't know abut pricing though, because I don't live there.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 11 2013, 1:36 am
amother wrote:
OP here

thank you shabri and liba! so, yes, I just researched a little bit about Nofei Hashemesh adn rabbi rosner. I also heard that it is probably the most expensive neighborhood in BS Sad

This might sound like a silly question, but you know how here in the states`, people do walk ten minutes to get to shul, does that option exist in BS? I mean for example if dh wanted to daven in rabbi rosner's shul and we lived ten minute walk away, would it be a big deal to daven there and try to make friends in that neighborhood IYKWIM? I am only asjking this because I have not been able to get any more info yet about BS, and that is the only chardal type nieghborhood that I have heard of so far. I do not need a homogenous neighborhood, but I do also need enough people around me who have a similar viewpoint in life to me, in order to feel comfortable.

Please keep it coming, thanks so much.

I live neither in BS nor RBS, so maybe I'm missing some subtle nuance here. In any city, anywhere: Why can't you daven someplace that's 10 minutes (or 5 minutes or 20 minutes) away from where you live?
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amother


 

Post Fri, Jan 11 2013, 3:47 am
I lived in Beit Shemesh until about a year and a half ago.

There are a lot of different areas within Beit Shemesh. Nachala u'Menucha is hardcore Israeli hareidi, right next to it you have Sheinfeld which is very heavily anglo, mostly MO but with yeshivish and (mostly Israeli) masorti families too. On the other side of Nachala u'menucha is Migdal Hamayim, which has a (mostly Israeli) dati leumi community but is mostly Israeli and Russian chiloni.

So which neighborhood you're in matters a lot when it comes to the type of population.

Most neighborhoods aren't much cheaper than RBS. When I was in Beit Shemesh, Migdal Hamayim and most of old Beit Shemesh was still cheaper, but in old Beit Shemesh in particular the houses are cheaper for a reason (ie, they aren't so nicely built).

Overall, the non-hareidi religious life in Beit Shemesh is mostly English-speaking MO or Israeli Sephardi masorti-dati. Just to be clear: "masorti" means traditional, not Conservative like the North American "mesorti" movement. Basically, sephardi families where everyone keeps Shabbat and kashrut but they watch movies and play sports, kids may not be in dati schools, the women probably wear pants, etc.

I can't really think of a community that's more "right-wing DL" like you described. I guess maybe the garin Torani in Givat Sharet, but most of the community there is masorti/chiloni. I'm not familiar with nofei hashemesh.

People do daven at farther-away shuls but IMO it's kind of a shame to put yourself in that situation, since you miss out on living near the people whose community you want to be a part of, which makes it a lot harder (more of a shlep to get to community events, harder to get the kids together for playdates, etc). Ten minutes would be a normal walk, actually, but I would try to be within 15 minutes.

You probably won't need a car. Beit Shemesh has good public transportation and anyway, anywhere you live has all the major stuff you need (grocery store, clinic, etc) relatively close by.
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slushiemom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 11 2013, 4:07 am
Hey, so I live in Sheinfeld, Bet Shemesh, and we lived in Ramat Shiloh for just under a year. I moved to sheinfeld with my parents when we made aliyah 8 years ago, and after I got married my husband and I tried a few different communities before moving back here a few years ago. I LOVE the community, I have a terrific group of friends, great shul etc. We belong to Rabbi David's shul (Bet Midrash Torani Leumi- BMTL), which is heavily anglo, pretty DL with some chardal leaning families.

The majority of the women do cover their hair in some way or another, and wear skirts. Long sleeves is probably closer to half and half. One thing I really love about it here though, is that for the women who wear pants and don't cover their hair- NO ONE judges, cares or talks about it. I'm 27, most of my friends are 30-32 and there's a lot of families older here also (as I said, my parents live here).

My oldest is still in Gan Chova, but we're planning on sending to Orot. People are VERY happy with the education there, the rabbanim are great and the quality of families who send there are also great. The kita alef Rav goes into my son's gan chova once a week to teach parsha and the boys LOVE him. You would definitely NOT be the only one sending to Rappaport, my parents send my sister there and they're very happy with it. There's a bus of kids that go to rappaport from Bet Shemesh.

Car- Not everyone has a car, it's definitely easier however it's also totally doable without one. The public bus system is easy, as are cabs. A lot of ganim are walking distance, and we have a supermarket that's walking distance also. To go to a big supermarket w/o a car, you can take a bus there and either cab home, or get delivery (they all deliver).

Really happy to answer more questions, if you need!
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 11 2013, 4:33 am
amother wrote:
Just to be clear: "masorti" means traditional, not Conservative like the North American "mesorti" movement. Basically, sephardi families where everyone keeps Shabbat and kashrut but they watch movies and play sports, kids may not be in dati schools, the women probably wear pants, etc.

.


I know nothing about BS or RBS, but wanted to chime in here. Mesorati in Israel means just that, traditional - but not religious - in other words, make a kiddush, fast on yom kippur, kiss the mezuzah, but likely watch tv on shabbat, or drive. They keep some traditions, some keep kosher, but they usually don't keep shabbat.

The description you gave above describes more modern dati families. (Since when does watching movies/playing sports/or even wearing pants disqualify one from being 'dati'? Certainly not in Israeli lexicon).
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Tinkerbelle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 11 2013, 4:51 am
amother wrote:
Sorry cant be of much help, but Do know that I have cousins in BS who are ultra Charedie (chassidish) that's also where you hear some of the incidents of spitting or etc. at less religious.

Don't know if the whole BS is like that.
you really should'nt make general assumptions about a large city populated by thousands of decent ppl based on a few isolated incidents. We lived in the Gerrer section of the Kirya for a few years, we stuck out like a sore thumb and no one ever said anything nasty, let alone spit at us. they were actually very friendly and welcoming, even when I went out in short sleeves.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Jan 11 2013, 4:52 am
Tablepoetry wrote:
amother wrote:
Just to be clear: "masorti" means traditional, not Conservative like the North American "mesorti" movement. Basically, sephardi families where everyone keeps Shabbat and kashrut but they watch movies and play sports, kids may not be in dati schools, the women probably wear pants, etc.

.


I know nothing about BS or RBS, but wanted to chime in here. Mesorati in Israel means just that, traditional - but not religious - in other words, make a kiddush, fast on yom kippur, kiss the mezuzah, but likely watch tv on shabbat, or drive. They keep some traditions, some keep kosher, but they usually don't keep shabbat.

The description you gave above describes more modern dati families. (Since when does watching movies/playing sports/or even wearing pants disqualify one from being 'dati'? Certainly not in Israeli lexicon).

Sorry, you're right. That description was meant to be of masorti-dati, which was the term I'd used earlier. I would define just plain masorti like you do.
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3 little 1s




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 11 2013, 4:54 am
As far as Im aware, in no country is masorti considered orthodox. The theology varies from place to place and shul to shul, and it definately comes close to orthodoxy in some of these shuls...but I dont think it has a place within orthodoxy according to any orthodox rabbi.
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 11 2013, 5:34 am
3 little 1s wrote:
As far as Im aware, in no country is masorti considered orthodox. The theology varies from place to place and shul to shul, and it definately comes close to orthodoxy in some of these shuls...but I dont think it has a place within orthodoxy according to any orthodox rabbi.


That's the thing, in Israel, there are no 'mesorati shuls'. The mesorati/traditional people usually just attend their regular local Orthodox shul, often choosing according to their eida (Yemenite, morroccan, ashkenazi, etc).
There is also no 'mesorati ideology' in Israel. It's just a label for people who value Jewish tradition and make it a strong presence in their lives, but do not actually keep many major halachot (like shabbat). It's not an organization with leaders, like the Conservative movement or Reform.
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