My son has gender disorder....

HindaRochel

Sun, Feb 10 2013, 5:34 am

Dolly Welsh wrote:

I certainly do not mean a mother should "withdraw" or be chilly to her sons. I said "slight but real distance" - you folks only heard the "distance". You ignored the "slight" part.

Well perhaps you should explain yourself better.

Quote:

And Barbara concedes boys can express their feelings differently. Barbara says boys have a unique style all their own just from being biologically male. Everybody's not the same.

She used the word may. Same thing applies to girls as well, however, boys are more likely to be socialized to express themselves differently.

Quote:

OP describes a six year old, no tiny pre-schooler, who wants to wear her clothes. OK, that's why I offered some insights on what might be going on, and what might help. Yes, to get this particular son a little bit into a more macho-man direction. Not extremely, just a little, to compensate. His own mother feels concern.

Yes she was concerned, but you extrapolated way too much, and you did make suggestions which were quite extreme. No one would have said "boo" if you enjoyed the mother to have daddy play with son more.

Quote:

You all told her to not worry, but she IS worried, and may still be next week too, no matter what you say. I gave her something to actually use. If she feels like it. Not ONE of you said your sons wanted to wear your clothes.

My long laundry list was only intended as something to pick and choose from, as OP felt inclined.

You didn't make suggestions you made a list of dos and don'ts. Quite different from saying "You can try this."

And I do believe I read about other moms whose sons wanted to wear their clothes. It is actually fairly common. Women's clothes tend to be more colorful, especially in the frum world, and colors attract children. The styles are also different, and this also attracts children.

==================================

Quote:

I am lending my computer to someone, and will be off line for about a week. See you guys then, after it is returned.

amother

Sun, Feb 10 2013, 10:15 am

amother wrote:

Op, your son does not have "gender disorder". Treat him as though he does not.

Is this even a real thread? or just more of the let's hoot a bunch about nonsense and get everyone worked up with an absurd thread title.

Op, apologies in advance if this is real.

Amother again. Sorry I was so rude and insensitive. I don't know what got into me. Sometimes I like to read people's very real situations and make fun of them. I wind up making fun of lots of innocent people this way, people who might be grappling with similar issues and figuring out how to reconcile themselves to them. I should acknowledge that even the lighthearted comments here were posted with no disrespect to people dealing with gender identity issues.

I'll try to be more sensitive and respectful in the future, whether I'm serious or joking. And I'll try not to be rude posting as amother. It's cowardly and immature and violates the rules of anonymous posting here.

Barbara

Sun, Feb 10 2013, 10:16 am

Dolly Welsh wrote:

I certainly do not mean a mother should "withdraw" or be chilly to her sons. I said "slight but real distance" - you folks only heard the "distance". You ignored the "slight" part.

And Barbara concedes boys can express their feelings differently. Barbara says boys have a unique style all their own just from being biologically male. Everybody's not the same.

OP describes a six year old, no tiny pre-schooler, who wants to wear her clothes. OK, that's why I offered some insights on what might be going on, and what might help. Yes, to get this particular son a little bit into a more macho-man direction. Not extremely, just a little, to compensate. His own mother feels concern.

You all told her to not worry, but she IS worried, and may still be next week too, no matter what you say. I gave her something to actually use. If she feels like it. Not ONE of you said your sons wanted to wear your clothes.

My long laundry list was only intended as something to pick and choose from, as OP felt inclined.

==================================

I am lending my computer to someone, and will be off line for about a week. See you guys then, after it is returned.

I didn't ignore the "slight" part. Let me shout it. A PARENT CREATING ANY SORT OF DISTANCE BETWEEN HERSELF AND A 6 YEAR-OLD IS DISGUSTING AND WRONG.

I'll give you an example from the book I cited. First day of kindergarten. Mothers of girls are encouraged to stay to help their daughters transition. Mothers of boys are hurried along, don't make those boys into "sissies." (Gawd, I hate that word.) Within a week, the girls' moms are all gone, and the girls have transitioned beautifully. Many of the boys, OTOH, are still a mess, not transitioning well at all. Gee, I wonder why.

And I think lots of people talked about their sons wanting to wear their mother's things. My DS most definitely used to walk around in my heels and a colorful scarf. So what?

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Feb 19 2013, 6:27 pm

I would never use the word "sissie" ever, ever. I never used it in this thread and it would never cross my lips. Ever.

Of course you should stay with any kid, boy or girl, to help them transition into a new school.

What I meant is a little more like "don't talk to your kid, especially a male one, as if he were a buddy or a confidant". It is a tiny bit of respectful distance, and it isn't used every minute of the day, all day. Certainly a little boy is cuddled into sleep and kissed goodnight by a very close Mommy. Obviously. But there are also occasional moments when you treat him like a little man. In a light spirit, with a slight bit of tender humor. In a slightly joking way, but he gets it. He is getting your affectionate permission to turn into a man.

Kids do lots of things and grow out of lots of things. I am not at all diagnosing OP's son. He's just a little kid.

I offered my thoughts on the subject of what's useful in supporting good male development. This is an interesting subject. It's a little complicated.

We do have to let our dear sons grow up to be One of Them. There is no use pretending we do not view men as Them. There is no use pretending they don't view us that way too.

We can say to our sons that that is nature and G-d's will and it is fine. Then we get grown sons who love their Moms very much, forever, and also separate healthily from them and are their own men.

We have to let them know somehow that that is ok with us. That they don't have to choose between Mommy's Love, which is the most precious substance in the universe, and their masculinity.

The closer one is to a son emotionally, the more one needs to pay attention to this!

Some sons may run merrily out the door, and never need these subtle techniques.

Each son is different.

I did it fine. It was a lot of fun.

I am sure it will work out for OP.

I am backing off the clothes thing because I don't know enough about it. I am no medic or shrink.

Everybody likes people best who are like them. A woman with a few sons might be thrilled to finally get a girl (or not). She would be wise to contain her joyful effusions about that to when her sons aren't around, lest one of them get the idea that being a girl is the approved thing, and it's the thing to try for. That's just tact.

Maybe I have found the right word there. Be tactful.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Feb 19 2013, 10:50 pm

I am not addressing anybody except the original poster and anybody else who wants to think about similar issues AND WHO IS HAVING A SIMILAR PROBLEM.

Obviously "naturally manly men" are not the subject of the original post.

Love and acceptance are obviously the starting point and don't need advocating. The OP sounds like a mom who doesn't need to be told to be loving and accepting. She already is. Still, she has a concern, anyway.

One of her kids is giving her fits, just one of them, not all of them. And even he has probably finished graduate school already and has a long beard and fine sons of his own.

Of course mom's love is the most precious thing in anybody's universe and children will try to get and keep it. Especially when upstaged by a new baby.

I never read the Portnoy book.

Clarissa

Wed, Feb 20 2013, 10:05 am

Dolly Welsh wrote:

What I meant is a little more like "don't talk to your kid, especially a male one, as if he were a buddy or a confidant". It is a tiny bit of respectful distance, and it isn't used every minute of the day, all day. Certainly a little boy is cuddled into sleep and kissed goodnight by a very close Mommy. Obviously. But there are also occasional moments when you treat him like a little man. In a light spirit, with a slight bit of tender humor. In a slightly joking way, but he gets it. He is getting your affectionate permission to turn into a man.

The closer one is to a son emotionally, the more one needs to pay attention to this!

Some sons may run merrily out the door, and never need these subtle techniques.

Everybody likes people best who are like them. A woman with a few sons might be thrilled to finally get a girl (or not). She would be wise to contain her joyful effusions about that to when her sons aren't around, lest one of them get the idea that being a girl is the approved thing, and it's the thing to try for. That's just tact.

Where to start. "Treat him like a little man"? What on earth does that mean? My children are my children. What is involved in treating a son like a little man? You give him a little tiny attache case for preschool? Have him kill bugs for you? Buy him chewing tobacco and teach him to adjust himself down there?

What are the subtle techniques that help sons run merrily out the door? And if sons don't run merrily, does that make them more or less masculine? I'm confused. Is merry a butch thing or not?

I'm totally baffled by the thing about expressing joy about having a daughter. Is that part of what helps or hinders a "little man" and helps him run merrily or not merrily? All of these euphemisms and I have no idea what's being said.

Gotta go. My little man is complaining aobut his PMS again. I hate when he gets like this.

chavs

Wed, Feb 20 2013, 11:11 am

Dolly Welsh, both my ds and dd have worn my clothes and ds has recently tried on my make up, he is 7 btw, and I have no worry about him not being 'manly' enough. I mention this because you wrote that no one mentioned that their son wanted to wear their clothes. My son does and he is a happy, healthy and well adjusted child. Another child I know who is almost bar mitzva dressed up in his mothers clothes until he was older then my ds is now and he is a very normal, gifted, healthy boy too (and he doesnt afaik dress in his moms clothes anymore). My dd dresses in dh's clothes sometimes too and she is also normal and I have no worries. Kids are different, and should not be treated the same but differently according to each child's need, but not according to gender.

HindaRochel

Thu, Feb 21 2013, 8:04 am

Dolly Welsh wrote:

No children should not be used as confidants, there is no especially. I've no idea still what you mean by respectful distance, nor what you mean by treating him like a "little man". Permission to turn into a man? I think they do that well enough on their own without needing my permission. Teaching them to be responsible adults is something else, but no, mommy didn't need to give her permission for them to become what they were becoming.

Quote:

Kids do lots of things and grow out of lots of things. I am not at all diagnosing OP's son. He's just a little kid.

Oh well good for you.

Quote:

I offered my thoughts on the subject of what's useful in supporting good male development. This is an interesting subject. It's a little complicated.

Actually you've complicated the whole thing.

Quote:

We do have to let our dear sons grow up to be One of Them. There is no use pretending we do not view men as Them. There is no use pretending they don't view us that way too.

Us vs Them. Is this how you view your dh?

Quote:

We can say to our sons that that is nature and G-d's will and it is fine. Then we get grown sons who love their Moms very much, forever, and also separate healthily from them and are their own men.

We have to let them know somehow that that is ok with us. That they don't have to choose between Mommy's Love, which is the most precious substance in the universe, and their masculinity.

Whatever are you talking about?

[quote]The closer one is to a son emotionally, the more one needs to pay attention to this!

Some sons may run merrily out the door, and never need these subtle techniques.

Quote:

Each son is different.

I did it fine. It was a lot of fun.

Quote:

I am sure it will work out for OP.

I am backing off the clothes thing because I don't know enough about it. I am no medic or shrink.

As were most of the rest of us, which is what we told OP pages and pages ago. And you certainly aren't a medic or shrink.

Quote:

Everybody likes people best who are like them. A woman with a few sons might be thrilled to finally get a girl (or not). She would be wise to contain her joyful effusions about that to when her sons aren't around, lest one of them get the idea that being a girl is the approved thing, and it's the thing to try for. That's just tact.

Maybe I have found the right word there. Be tactful.

Tact????? I mother shouldn't have to contain her joy about any child, though I think what you are trying to say is that a mother should love her children equally, that is, to find joy in each child as an individual. Mothers who treat any child as more important than the rest of their brood, regardless of why, do a disservice to their children.

Nothing to do with their relations.