Congressional Hearing on Autism

tissues

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 11:36 am

MaBelleVie wrote:

I mentioned tetanus. Can you provide a link that indicates there is thimerosal in the MMR? The CDC claims otherwise. There is also a thimerosal free version of the flu shot.

Once again, why do autism rates continue to go up when thimerosal use in vaccines has been virtually eliminated?

Did you listen to the link in the op? That's the link you're looking for. Here is a short snip of it for those who can't listen to the whole thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNWTOmEi_6A on the CDC's (lack of) study comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated and the admission of thimerosal in multi-dose vials

You really should listen to the whole thing in the first post (or at least most of it ) before commenting. Or at least read my posts. Otherwise I end up repeating myself again and again:

tissues wrote:

Besides, they have obviously concluded that thimerosal is dangerous as it has been removed from single-vial vaccines. Why is it then still found in the multiple-dose vaccines?.

tissues wrote:

UNDER OATH, Boyle from the CDC said that multiple-dose vaccines still contain mercury. The Hamaspik Gazette just had an article about the banning of mercury in everything except multiple-dose vaccines.

tissues wrote:

They removed thimerosal from single-vial vaccines. (Why do I feel like a tape recorder? )

tissues wrote:

Thimerosal was not removed from DTap, MMR, and any other vaccines which contain inoculations against more than one disease at once. (Here's the tape recorder again. )

amother

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 11:56 am

[quote="wifenmother"]

tissues wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

Well, the good news is that it is completely legal for any parent who so wishes to NOT cluster vaccines.

A parent who knows to ask for it, does have that right. Yet, the standard of care for majority of unknowing parents is to give something like 3 shots of 3 diseases each (DTap, MMR, etc.)
Why aren't parents told they have a choice? (With the risks and benefits specified.)

Never mind telling parents that they have a choice! TMost pediatricians aren't interested in accomodating numerous appointments in order to allow you to spread them out! It's 'easier' this way. And should anything happen, they did nothing wrong according the CDC.

My pediatrician agreed to postpone vaccines when I told him that I wasn't ready to innoculate my three month old whose immune system had just started developing. But every time I bring him in for shots he insists on giving him FOUR at a time, because he's 'behind' schedule. Never mind that at least two of those four are
combos already... He does not want to accomodate appointments that he views as 'unnecessary' though he gives in when I insist.

please dont generalize about pediatricians based on one experience. all of the pediatricians in my neighborhood are quite willing to delay. I have never given my kids more than two vaccines at a time, and if I want to totally skip one, my pediatrician doesnt say boo. its not up to our pediatricians to educate us and decide what is best for our kids, that is our job, and our duty to our kids.

tissues

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:00 pm

ally wrote:

You say you want more scientific evidence, but the only evidence you are willing to accept is that which supports your theory.
That is considered very bad scientific practice and a sure fire way to produce meaningless research.

Did you listen to Dr. Boyle from the CDC (which is a governmental agency) say that No, no studies were ever done by the CDC comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated children?
The Huffington Post and other blogs don't interest me. There should be more governmental research on this topic. And I'm not the one saying this. I'm just agreeing with Sen. Dan Burton, to Rep. Carolyn Maloney, and some others...

Barbara

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:08 pm

tissues wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

tissues wrote:

Besides, they have obviously concluded that thimerosal is dangerous as it has been removed from single-vial vaccines. Why is it then still found in the multiple-dose vaccines?.

tissues wrote:

They removed thimerosal from single-vial vaccines. (Why do I feel like a tape recorder? )

tissues wrote:

Thimerosal was not removed from DTap, MMR, and any other vaccines which contain inoculations against more than one disease at once. (Here's the tape recorder again. )

Can you provide a reliable source that says that MMR contains thimerosal? I didn't hear it on that tape, and I cannot find any source that says that MMR EVER contained thimerosal, much less that it does now. AIUI, that's because MMR is a live vaccine, and it would be damaged by thimerosal.

Moreover, almost all childhood vaccines in the US are now distributed as single use, without thimerosal. (SEE the chart I posted already.) The existence of thimerosal in some muti-dose childhood vaccines distributed outside of the US cannot affect the autism rate in the US.

tissues

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:10 pm

amother wrote:

I agree one shouldn't be generalizing about doctors. I think doctors are doing their job sincerely. Even if a specific doctor doesn't want to delay, he's only following the CDC's guidelines.

If a parent wants to do as you and give fewer vaccines at a time, which means more visits to the doctor, I'd say most doctors would be fine with it.

The problem is with parents who don't know. A pediatrician should be telling them clearly that they have a choice to spread it out and why they may or may not want to do that. In fact, the CDC's guidelines could change, so that the accepted way is to spread out. Why are parents like you an exception? Why shouldn't all parents have the benefit of not overwhelming their child's immune system?

The CDC's answer: To make sure that all children get all vaccines. Because people don't like to go to the doctor often, they take advantage of one visit to give many shots at once. To me, that seems like choosing convenience over safety.

tissues

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:12 pm

Barbara wrote:

I'm wondering why you didn't hear it on the tape. MMR is a multi-dose vaccine. She said that all multi-dose vials (and the flu shot) contain mercury. Dr. Boyle didn't specify all the multi-dose vaccines that exist.

Also, DTap is definitely a multi-dose vaccine given in childhood to children in the US.

Barbara

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:15 pm

tissues wrote:

Barbara wrote:

I didn't hear her say that MMR in multi-dose or otherwise contains thimerosal. Get me a source that says that, specifically. It should be easy to find if its true.

Also, while you're at it, get me a source that says that multi-dose MMR is currently in use in the US, since we're talking about autism rates here.

Barbara

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:19 pm

tissues wrote:

Barbara wrote:

I believe one brand of DTap contains trace amounts of thimerosal. No other brand does. I don't know the market share of various brands.

tissues

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:23 pm

Barbara wrote:

I didn't hear her say that MMR in multi-dose or otherwise contains thimerosal. Get me a source that says that, specifically. It should be easy to find if its true.

The hearing did not discuss MMR specifically; it was talking about vaccines in general. Dr. Boyle's comments do not completely agree with the CDC's website and what most people were led to believe, I.e. that vaccines do not contain thimerosal any longer. I can look for you specifically for MMR and post it when/if I find it.

Barbara wrote:

Also, while you're at it, get me a source that says that multi-dose MMR is currently in use in the US, since we're talking about autism rates here.

Ask any parent who is vaccinating children. MMR is given as one shot, rather than separating the mumps, measles, and rubella as 3 separate shots.

Barbara

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:32 pm

tissues wrote:

Barbara wrote:

I didn't hear her say that MMR in multi-dose or otherwise contains thimerosal. Get me a source that says that, specifically. It should be easy to find if its true.

Barbara wrote:

Also, while you're at it, get me a source that says that multi-dose MMR is currently in use in the US, since we're talking about autism rates here.

Ask any parent who is vaccinating children. MMR is given as one shot, rather than separating the mumps, measles, and rubella as 3 separate shots.

While I disagree with you on vaccine issues, I've generally found you to be well-informed and genuine. I'm thus surprised that you don't know that "multi-dose" with respect to vaccines refers to a vial that contains dosages used for more than one patient. Flu vaccine, for example, is generally multi-dose. MMR, in the US, is not, although it is a combination vaccine.

tissues

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:37 pm

marina wrote:

Hey, I don't know if you care, but autism was around long before vaccines.

Don't let facts get in the way of your opinions, though. It's all good.

You're right. Although, I have to correct you: It wasn't long before vaccines. The first documented case of autism was in 1943. I agree it was probably around even before that, but just gives you a picture...

However, the incidences of autism are much, much higher than they were then. It is considered of epidemic proportions. Why hasn't it been made as a forefront campaign like AIDS, and breast cancer?

tissues

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:42 pm

Barbara wrote:

tissues wrote:

Barbara wrote:

I didn't hear her say that MMR in multi-dose or otherwise contains thimerosal. Get me a source that says that, specifically. It should be easy to find if its true.

Barbara wrote:

Also, while you're at it, get me a source that says that multi-dose MMR is currently in use in the US, since we're talking about autism rates here.

Ask any parent who is vaccinating children. MMR is given as one shot, rather than separating the mumps, measles, and rubella as 3 separate shots.

I admit, you are right. I checked it up and carefully re-read it on the CDC's website. Thank you for pointing it out in a respectful manner!

marina

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:43 pm

tissues wrote:

marina wrote:

Hey, I don't know if you care, but autism was around long before vaccines.

Don't let facts get in the way of your opinions, though. It's all good.

It has been made a forefront.

And why do you think autism was less prevalent back then and not just less diagnosed? Nowadays everyone and their brother knows about autism and there are doctors that do just that all day- diagnose and treat autism. Back in 1943 and even in 1998, there wasn't this level of awareness.

marina

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:46 pm

tissues wrote:

marina wrote:

Hey, I don't know if you care, but autism was around long before vaccines.

Don't let facts get in the way of your opinions, though. It's all good.

MMR vaccine was introduced in 1963, 20 years after autism was first diagnosed. So what about all those children during the 20 years? They obviously didn't get it from vaccines?

MaBelleVie

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:56 pm

The link does not address the question of why autism jumped to epidemic proportions only AFTER thimerosal was removed from all required vaccines besides those containing tetanus.

I agree that autism research should be a high priority. And it is. Focusing in vaccines, when there is no evidence to support a link, is silly. They're making some interesting discoveries on the genetic front.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 5:20 pm

tissues wrote:

Barbara wrote:

tissues wrote:

Barbara wrote:

I didn't hear her say that MMR in multi-dose or otherwise contains thimerosal. Get me a source that says that, specifically. It should be easy to find if its true.

Barbara wrote:

Also, while you're at it, get me a source that says that multi-dose MMR is currently in use in the US, since we're talking about autism rates here.

Ask any parent who is vaccinating children. MMR is given as one shot, rather than separating the mumps, measles, and rubella as 3 separate shots.

I admit, you are right. I checked it up and carefully re-read it on the CDC's website. Thank you for pointing it out in a respectful manner!

As opposed to someone who kept telling me "You really should listen to the whole thing in the first post before commenting"? Tongue Out

I see now why we were having such a hard time understanding each other. Like Barbara, I understood that the only multi-dose vaccine with thimerosal currently in use (for quite a while already, actually) is tetanus. Flu is not mandated, and there is a thimerosal free version available.

tissues

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 6:29 pm

marina wrote:

tissues wrote:

marina wrote:

Hey, I don't know if you care, but autism was around long before vaccines.

Don't let facts get in the way of your opinions, though. It's all good.

MMR vaccine was introduced in 1963, 20 years after autism was first diagnosed. So what about all those children during the 20 years? They obviously didn't get it from vaccines?

No one is saying that MMR definitely causes autism, and that MMR is the only way that autism can be "contracted"!

tissues

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 6:30 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

tissues wrote:

Barbara wrote:

tissues wrote:

Barbara wrote:

I didn't hear her say that MMR in multi-dose or otherwise contains thimerosal. Get me a source that says that, specifically. It should be easy to find if its true.

Barbara wrote:

Also, while you're at it, get me a source that says that multi-dose MMR is currently in use in the US, since we're talking about autism rates here.

Ask any parent who is vaccinating children. MMR is given as one shot, rather than separating the mumps, measles, and rubella as 3 separate shots.

I admit, you are right. I checked it up and carefully re-read it on the CDC's website. Thank you for pointing it out in a respectful manner!

As opposed to someone who kept telling me "You really should listen to the whole thing in the first post before commenting"? Tongue Out

Yes, I see now, we were talking past each other. Thanks again for the education: Mikol m'lamdei hiskalti!