should I vax my kids for HEP B?

1222

Thu, May 23 2013, 8:07 pm

Wow can some answer harshly! I'm passsionate about vaccinies and did not use any mean words or guess at posters personalities. (if I did, im sorry) Please refrain from such as well.

I am a scientist. I spend 8 hrs every day deep into this stuff. The day I decided not to go into practical medicine and research instead was when a young father of three was told he had hep and would need a transplant to survive. He broke down saying his wife just gave birth to twins and it was all a childhood mistake... He was a frum man... I don't have the heart to tell such to another person.

If you want an explanation, just ask how they work instead of saying there are bad stuff in it! I'm very passionate about vaccination. Simply, the goal of any vaccine is to activate t and b cell memory. Both are absolutely required to fight infection. The intramuscular injection helps to cause some tissue damage. IV would not accomplish this and the immune response would not be sufficient to activate memory. The vaccine would just dilute in the blood and be week.

Alum/the stuff mixed in with the protein, along with the needle helps to kill some muscle cells. As a result, these cells release danger signals. Danger signals help to activate tidsue macrophages along with the alum. They then pick up the protein and alum as well.

They travel to lymph nodes where they present the proteins to cognate cd4 and cd8 cells. These cells travel to the tissue hence feeling sore a few days later and some will become tissuse memory cells. Some of these cells due to the alum in the lymph become central memory cells, one of two goals of the vaccine is ,et here! Some activated t cells activate b cells with the help of dendritic cells who have antigen from macrophages or draining damaged tissue. B cells go through rounds of selection to be make antibody that is highly reactive to the protein. some will hopefully due to alum again become memory waiting for reinfection.

If you need more clarification, let me know. I don't know your background.

Later, when they check to see if pple are vaccinated they essentially check antibody titer to see if b cells are still making antibody.

Again, let's be nice. There is enough hate unfortunately where there should be achva. No need for insults. We are alljews.

greenhelm

Thu, May 23 2013, 11:00 pm

1222 wrote:

That is very sad about the young father you knew. I hope things worked out.

And thank you for the detailed explanation - it was a very interesting read!

yogabird

Fri, May 24 2013, 2:03 am

1222 wrote:

If I understood your post correctly, you're basically explaining how the body is sort of fooled into producing a semi-immune response so that it will more quickly respond (or already have the antibodies necessary) in case of actual attack.

I assume that anyone that has done any research on vaccines know that this is how they work. They don't have to know the exact sequence of steps or the names of the chemicals that are released in the response to understand this process.

What I don't understand, is how knowing this will negate any of the negative effects that vaccines have.

I don't think anyone was saying it's not effective... although I'm sure that's disputable too. Things that work perfectly on paper or in chemical equations don't necessarily play out that way in real life, and certainly not in a human body.

1222

Fri, May 24 2013, 6:57 am

Bh the guy was a match to one of his 11 siblings was transplanted and survived. His wife knew about his mistake b4 they were married so she wasn't mad.

Yoga, you got it! It's just a giant trick! The side effects come from the nature of the trick itself.

The immune system doesn't have a brain its all based on pattern and recognition. Thus, is someone has iBD, RA, the flu, a cold, strep, or a vaccine... The immune system does the same thing. It makes you feel miserable. The cold or flu doesn't make your nose run and all congested, the immune system does in attempt to clear it. The diff btwn pple with disease like RA and IBD is the self perpetuating nature of it. so kids get fevers sometimes bc the immune system makes them feel sick.

It's like how a paper cut feels worse a few days later. It's the same process for the vaccine.

But, the very fact there is a sick response lets you know in an odd awkward uncomfortable way that their is a response and body is becoming immune to that virus. Not that being sick is good, some pple don't get so sick. People have diff tolerance levels. I hate the flu vaccine bc it makes me miserable and have fevers but its better than the flu!

yogabird

Fri, May 24 2013, 9:18 am

1222 wrote:

Oh. I get it now. You thought that when posters were talking about the bad effects they meant the crankiness, stuffed nose, or slight fever they have to deal with for the week after their kid gets a shot?

I can't speak for everyone else, but when I say negative effects, I mean long term, cumulative effects of vaccines that are not always immediately apparent.

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, May 24 2013, 9:48 am

To add, I'm HAPPY if my children show a runny nose after a vaccine. It means their body is clearing out the toxins. That is not what most people are concerned about.

But let's say someone doesn't want the immune system of her baby's body worked even harder at 4 months and prefers to wait till the baby is older. There is no reason for the average baby to need to be given the Hep B shot at 2 hours, 2 months, 4 months after birth, which is what OP's question was. This is a valid, educated decision parents may make. While activating the immune system is the point of a vaccine, when little babies are young and every drop of milk counts in helping them grow, and they're already being given more time sensitive vaccines, as well as exposed to germs all over which they also need to fight off, it's not unreasonable for a parent to delay Hep B even for minor symptom concerns like runny noses.

But as yogabird said, that's not what most people are worried about in the grand scheme of things.

Cookies n Cream

Fri, May 24 2013, 10:15 am

tissues wrote:

1222, thanks for the explanation, though I got lost with the scientific names. But basically, if I understood correctly, the aluminum helps to stimulate an immune response to the virus in the vaccine. So, the aluminum is needed for the vaccine to be effective. Yes?

No one was arguing that. What I (and others) are saying is that there are many considerations and hesitations regarding vaccines including but not only possible negative side effects to aluminum. For any one single person to come out and say that vaccinating (any vaccine) is completely safe is in denial.

This.
I knew all the scientific information that you gave (with the names etc..) already, but your post did not address the concerns that anti vaxers have.

(Like I said -I am very pro-vax simply because I feel that the benefits outweight the small amount of risk in some vaccines. SOme I feel are perfectly safe, and I don't even bother with the flu shot because I get the flu every time I get the shot and it was only 56% effective this year anyways...)

amother

Fri, May 24 2013, 11:04 am

amother wrote:

after reading the literature about Hep B I decided that the chances of getting it were so remote for my kids that it wouldn't be worthwhile to vax them.
I did vax them for hep A and all the other vax's except chicken pox.

my ped nicely told me that I am a fool for not giving them hep B.

what possible reason can I have for vaxing my kids against a STD when they are small??
same goes for gardasil for girls?

I understand in the non-jewish world vaxing before they start being s-xually active. in my world that means before getting married, not at age 10!!!!

I'm pretty sure vaccines are only good 10 years or so, so even in the outside world I can't see many 10 year-old or younger kids needing protection from s-xually or IV drug use transmitted disease.

I'm pretty sure this vaccine is given mainly to line certain people's pockets with more money.

Cookies n Cream

Fri, May 24 2013, 11:20 am

amother wrote:

Did you read the article I posted? Do you go upstate in the summer? Were you ever at Harris Hospital with a child?

tissues

Fri, May 24 2013, 12:15 pm

Cookies n Cream wrote:

amother wrote:

Did you read the article I posted? Do you go upstate in the summer? Were you ever at Harris Hospital with a child?

And that child was given an injection of insulin?

The risks of contracting Hep B are very specific and limited (as opposed to a contagious disease like chickenpox). It makes sense to come to the conclusion that the chances of contracting the disease at a young age are negligible and the side effects of vaccinations are greater. (I say vaccinations in general, as I don't know of side effects specific to the Hep B. Rather the damage of vaccines collectively, especially to a vulnerable population of infants, children, and pregnant women.)

You are entitled to draw your own conclusion.