lower pay for women

carrot

Fri, May 13 2005, 2:45 pm

do you agree with the statement that women are paid less than men would be paid for the same work?

or that "women's jobs" (I.e. preschool teacher) are lower paid - even though they actually don't require less work/skill?

if you agree that the above statement is true, why do you think this is? what do you think can or shoud be done about it?

do you have personal experience with this issue?

(I am talking about within the frum world.)

roza

Fri, May 13 2005, 3:01 pm

yes, sure it's statisticly correct, that in many cases women get paid less for the same job.

Quote:

For every dollar a man made in 2003, women made 75.5 cents, the Census Bureau said in its annual report on income.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/.....x.htm

1stimer

Sat, May 14 2005, 3:45 pm

Hmm! It is absolutely true and I think it is especially true in the frum world.

I worked for a chasidic organisation once, I had more experience, was doing more skilled work and had been working at the place longer and yet was still getting less paid than a chasidic man my age!!!!!! Don't get me started on this...

What is there to do about it? I don't know, very little... B/c if u complain to management they will either come up with some excuse (I.e. give guy a fancy title, which doesn't change the fact that he is coming to you asking you for advice on how to do everything!!) or they say sue us... Well, I'm not going to sue in legal court before going to beis din. And will it stand up in beis din? I don't know.

carrot

Sat, May 14 2005, 10:12 pm

theoretically...

what do you think would happen in such a situation if, instead of bringing up the issue of the less capable man getting paid more, a woman would simply say that in order to continue working she needs to get paid $xxx amount?

1stimer

Sat, May 14 2005, 11:07 pm

She would be told no, in too many places, there are enuf ppl willing to take the job, and the boss knows it Twisted Evil

stem

Sat, May 14 2005, 11:13 pm

It really bothers me when I see women teachers get paid maybe half of what their male counterparts are getting. Is "Rebbi" a higher job title than "Morah"? Some people think that Rebbis should get a higher salary because they are the breadwinners, but there are many times that the women are supporting the family, or working to supplement their income because they really need it!

1stimer

Sat, May 14 2005, 11:23 pm

Quote:

Some people think that Rebbis should get a higher salary because they are the breadwinners, but there are many times that the women are supporting the family,

I was working for someone who told me that he did not employ men b/c he didn't want the responsibility of supporting their family... at that time, I was the breadwinner for the family.

Besides, I always found this logic faulty, because I believe that ppl shd get paid for their WORK not for their STATUS.

supermom

Sun, May 15 2005, 5:37 am

I am shocked I never realized it. now I am thinking about it that you might be correct. I was working somewhere in america and we girls the secertaries and everything in the book we got paid 7 dollars an hour on the books and the men who were doing practically nothing were getting 15 hour. how rude. but why should it be so common in the frum world. are you sure it is not like that in the non frum world? are they allowed to do this according to halacha? I would take a person like this to beis din. I think a person can take anyone or for any reason to beis din no?

stem

Sun, May 15 2005, 12:30 pm

When I used to work for an office, all the girls used to get paid an hourly rate, and the men got a salary. The girls ended up having to work like dogs just to make a decent living while the men could take off a day here and there, come a little late sometimes, slack off when they had nothing to do.. etc. This whole topic is very disturbing. Maybe they should address it in an Aguda convention..

carrot

Sun, May 15 2005, 4:24 pm

I asked my husband about taking an employer to bais din for discriminatory pay. he said that while it may not be right, if you agreed to work for that $, what could you argue? there is no halacha that forbids discrimination on the basis of relations.

what would happen if ALL the girls in the office would stand up together and demand higher pay? would the employer let them all go? (not that this is likely to happen, just trying to imagine it...)

or what about all the women teachers in a school?

I've heard people say that the ONLY reason they hire girls for certain jobs is because they are cheaper. (for example, counselors in a day camp where the campers are both girls and boys - so the staff can be either.)

IndyMom

Sun, May 15 2005, 6:55 pm

Anyone here a good researcher/writer? This would be a great subject to research within the frum community and then have printed in a frum magazine. Perhaps by making it a public issue, it can eventually be resolved. It sounds like there is no progress on making it fair when no one does anything about it. I despise this type of discrimination.

1stimer

Mon, May 16 2005, 6:41 am

carrot, the problem is that while in theory, it sounds good to have everyone stand up and say no, in practice it doesn't work, since too many of us are relying on the job/money to support our families and we can't afford to lose the job. And the employers know it. Herein the problem.

Indymom, good idea. Let's do it. Only prob is who will print it, 1 of the chareidi male dominated publications? They only stand to lose from having it printed.

supermom

Mon, May 16 2005, 9:42 am

shouldn't us woman have a right to say what we want to? it is a free world after all, unless not totally free.

1stimer

Mon, May 16 2005, 10:04 am

You can say what you want. You can quit your job because you're not getting equal pay. But when push comes to shove, getting up on the soapbox and talking about equal rights ain't gonna pay the bills.

IndyMom

Mon, May 16 2005, 10:17 am

1stimer - aren't there some frum female magazines? I always see my mother reading Horizons, which doesn't look very male to me. Also, I have seen some female jewish parenting magazines. Perhaps if we publicize the issue in these publications, it will have to spread to the male dominated publications.

Mommy912

Sun, Jun 12 2005, 2:05 pm

For my job I bill clients for work that I do and I do find that men sometimes take very long to pay me. But what can I do? I can ask nicely and call again and again but I feel that if I was a man they would be more quick to pay. I can't get aggressive with a frum man on the phone. Funny, when the client is a women they pay up right away!

amother

Mon, Jun 27 2005, 12:21 pm

mommy912, that is a sad but often true situation. what if you would send an official bill in the mail (if you don't do that already)? or what if your husband would call for you? those are the two steps I take when people don't pay.