friend's husband doesnt want her to work

amother

Wed, Feb 28 2007, 9:08 am

I work with a lady (sphardi, charedi) who's husband does not want her to work anymore.
she was a stay at home mom for about 20 years and she was begining to feel like she needed to get out a bit and before she had children, about 20 years ago, she had worked.
now, the reason why her husband does not want her to work is because he is used to her being at home and in her circles, the wife/mother does not work so that husband does not want her to.
she does a wonderful job at her work, so that is not even an issue.
again, in her circles whatever the husband says really goes. they even went to a rav to ask and the rav said that she must listen to her husband.

I dont really have a question, but just wanted to vent about this. to me, if I had to listen to everything my husband said and told me, I know that I would feel like I was not his equal and to me that is what marriage is about, two equal beings sharing a life. to me that is kind of backwards, kind of like the arabs, their women are subserviant to the men. I know that the sphardim are like that, that the women are to always listen to the men, but it is also combated with the fact that whatever they have a question on they ask a rav and whatever he says goes, no matter what.

what is she supposed to do? she was becoming depressed being at home and we were able to see her flurishing in this new job.

faigie

Wed, Feb 28 2007, 9:17 am

no judgments here, just an ironic observation. how many women wish their hubby would be able to fully support them, and that they could stay home, no boss no money worries etc. life can be strange that way... . and yet here that obviously isnt working for your friend.

amother

Wed, Feb 28 2007, 9:24 am

faigie wrote:

correct and I forgot to mention that her husband is a kollel man, so the income would and could ONLY help, not hurt or be nothing.

gold21

Wed, Feb 28 2007, 9:40 am

oh gosh why cant these women speak up for themselves? this is america in 2007, not iraq in 1807. oh its so unfair!
why does the sephardic community have the name of having a lot of physical and verbal abuse of women by their husbands? there must be a reason for this "myth"- likely cuz it really does exist in many homes, unfortunately, and isnt a myth at all.
how unfair. this woman should definitely be working, not making herself crazy and depressed just cuz her husband doesnt fancy her going to work. please gimme a break...........
and yeah faige it is ironic isnt it! I dont think I would mind staying home. but then again thats cuz I have a baby to care for, bli ayin hora. if my kids were grown, I wouldnt want to stay home all day! booooring

amother

Wed, Feb 28 2007, 9:44 am

gold21 wrote:

gold21, first of all, jsut to set this straight, not that I think it makes any differece, but this is actually in israel that I am talking about. I dont know if the sphardi community all over the world is like this.
I know that this lady was not so thrilled being at home. I mean, some women love being at home and can do it for years and years. others need some stimulation in their lives and need to get out. and as I mentioned above, the salary, although it is not much, will help the family. she has a LOT of children and her husband is a kollel guy.
I dont understand why she cant justtell her husband that this job will be a positive thing for the whole family and for shalom bayit, but no, she has to keep her opinion to herself and suffer in silence.

MommyLuv

Wed, Feb 28 2007, 10:32 am

I dont get it. What does a woman with no babies or young kids at home do all day, just cook, clean and manage her kids' lives? I'd go nuts. I'm happy to stay home now that I am in my "baby years" BH, but once I hit 40 or whenever, I would probably want to look for meaningful work outside of the home or go back to school for a new profession.

If someone is happy being a homemaker exclusively, good for her..but obviously the person you're talking about needs something on the outside...

I feel bad for this woman. It's sad that she has to conform to her community's standards just because that's what everyone else does and that's what her husband expects.
It makes me appreciate being married to a man who supports me in every move I make.

JRKmommy

Wed, Feb 28 2007, 12:26 pm

I wonder how the question would have been put to the rav. Did she speak to the rav as well? Was he told merely that she "wanted" to work, or was he specifically told that she was actually depressed when she was at home, that finances were a cause of stress, and that this was turning into a real shalom bayit issues.

I married into a Sephardic (Iraqi) family, who aren't charedi. Dh's female cousins in Israel work. They need to, and they are modern, educated and outspoken. The older generations were different - the men were seen much more as providers/protectors/decision-makers. From the ones I know, I wouldn't say that it was "abusive". To the contrary - they would go out of their way to care for family. However, it was very different from the Western notion of individualism. For example, when the family first came to Israel, one aunt wanted to be a nurse or teacher, but her brother simply declared that this wasn't a suitable job for a young woman. Dh's own father - who is a very sweet and devoted man - has his "patriarchal" moments, which gets interesting because I am SO not like that! However, MIL went back to work 16 years ago, after staying home to raise 4 kids, and she's absolutely blossomed in her job.

amother

Wed, Feb 28 2007, 1:11 pm

MommyLuv wrote:

I feel bad for this woman. It's sad that she has to conform to her community's standards just because that's what everyone else does and that's what her husband expects.
It makes me appreciate being married to a man who supports me in every move I make.

OP here: she is not so much conforming to her community's standards as much as she is doing what her husband says, thats just the way it is there. if she were to just say, no, I am not listening to you, the husband would surely say, ok, then I will divorce you. that cant be a good answer either.

and yes, this makes me appreciate being married to a man who supports everything that I do as well as is my equal in every way.

I remember dating a sphardi guy that when I told him I was going to be going for my MA, he was dumbfounded. he could not see the logic in a female going on to further education (well, that ended that guy for me) he told me that the place of the woman is in the home, not in the work place. I could not even speak as I was shocked to even hear that come out of someone's mouth in today's age........

Motek

Thu, Mar 01 2007, 1:48 pm

amother wrote:

she does a wonderful job at her work, so that is not even an issue.
again, in her circles whatever the husband says really goes. they even went to a rav to ask and the rav said that she must listen to her husband.

Please explain - she went back to work and THEN her husband protested and they went to a rav and she quit her job? They didn't discuss her going back to work after 20 years before she took the job?

Quote:

I dont really have a question, but just wanted to vent about this. to me, if I had to listen to everything my husband said and told me, I know that I would feel like I was not his equal and to me that is what marriage is about, two equal beings sharing a life.

You know what? Equals in marriage is not a Jewish idea (I'm ducking). Wink

Check out the Isha Ksheira thread and Marital Obligations in the Marriage section.

amother

Thu, Mar 01 2007, 4:15 pm

Quote:

Motek wrote:

amother wrote:

Please explain - she went back to work and THEN her husband protested and they went to a rav and she quit her job? They didn't discuss her going back to work after 20 years before she took the job?

I am not 100% sure that they did or didnt discuss it, but he was ok with it for about two months and now all of a sudden he is not ok with anymore...

Quote:

You know what? Equals in marriage is not a Jewish idea (I'm ducking). Wink

Check out the Isha Ksheira thread and Marital Obligations in the Marriage section.

yeah, you should duck from that statement. ok, so not equals per say, but different but equal. if she feels that she needs to work to keep her sanity, whats wrong with that? and did I mentione (a few times already) that her salary could help them a lot as they are a kollel family with many children).
when I said equal all I meant was that in today's age a woman should not have to be subserviant to whatever her husband tells her to do, no matter what, that should not be an issue in the 21st century.

Nomad

Thu, Mar 01 2007, 6:36 pm

yeesh - poor lady...

what if she did volunteer work - like chessed? would that bother dh? at least she would get out of the house and feel like she is being productive.
I got this idea from my Bubby since my Zaidy also didnt want her to work - she did this for a while.

PinkandYellow

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 2:51 am

Motek wrote:

amother wrote:

he was ok with it for about two months and now all of a sudden he is not ok with anymore...

Then it sounds like we are missing information.

yes. from what I know of this community and from the op post, the missing info would be that husband was initially ok with it bec wife wanted to work. then after two months worth of husband getting comments from friends (like, oh you're wife works shock

?!) he decided she shouldn't work.

Motek

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 2:19 pm

Maybe ... I don't know. Then you'd think that when they saw the rav, she would say - he was initially fine with my working and now he changed his mind. And the reason would be discussed. Maybe she was working with men? Maybe things at home were not taken care of as they used to be? Maybe he didn't really like the idea of her going to work from the beginning but she pushed ahead and did it anyway? I don't know.

amother

Tue, Mar 06 2007, 9:17 am

Quote:

Motek wrote:
amother wrote:
he was ok with it for about two months and now all of a sudden he is not ok with anymore...

Then it sounds like we are missing information.

yes. from what I know of this community and from the op post, the missing info would be that husband was initially ok with it bec wife wanted to work. then after two months worth of husband getting comments from friends (like, oh you're wife works ?!) he decided she shouldn't work.

OP here: first of all, how do ou know what community I am talking about? I am assuming that the husband was ok with it to begin with because the wife went to work and she was very happy about it and I am sure that if her husband would not have been ok with it, she would not have been as happy as she was.

also, what info do you think you are missing?

Motek wrote:

OP here: she was not working with men. the company is mostly women, maybe three men and they have their own office.
as far as at home? I think that all was well at home so that reason is not a valid one.

PinkandYellow

Wed, Mar 07 2007, 12:19 am

Motek wrote:

you're assuming that they went to the rav together, and both said their point of views and the rav paskened. but who said she went to the rav? maybe he just went and even if he presented her side of the story, it couldn't possibly be the same.

Quote:

first of all, how do ou know what community I am talking about?

well, you said they are sfard,chareidi and living in il, so that is the community.

op

Quote:

in her circles, the wife/mother does not work so that husband does not want her to.

actually, op made it pretty clear what changed. after the wife started working, husband realized just how unacceptable that was in his community.

amother

Wed, Mar 07 2007, 8:53 am

Quote:

[quote="MosheDovid'sMom"]

Motek wrote:

they did go to the rav together. what was said there though by whom I cant tell you, I have no idea.