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Does Jewish music just not "do it" for you?
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spring13




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 28 2013, 2:08 pm
I listen to a lot of instrumental stuff, mostly Irish/Celtic - Lunasa, Natalie MacMaster, the Riverdance and Lord of the Dance soundtracks, etc.

Folk and country music tend to have "cleaner" or more wholesome lyrics as well. If I'm in the car and dont have access to my own stuff, I put on the country radio station. Some of the rednecky types are annoying, but a lot of it is ok, and its better than endless thumping beats about clubbing and one-night stands.
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boysmom79




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 28 2013, 2:32 pm
The way the post is worded it kind of makes you think that jewish music "shouldn't " be "doing it" for you ( whatever that means) but after listening to non jewish music as a teenager for years, it just doesn't "do it" for me anymore- I want to be inspired and grow in my relationship w g-d and Judaism- and listening to not jewish music just doesn't cut it.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 28 2013, 2:34 pm
I don't feel that music itself, absent lyrics, has a religion. I dislike many genres of secular music like heavy metal and rock, but in reality much of what I dislike is the volume, the dependence on heavy bass, the shrieking vocals, and the lyrics, which range from suggestive to obscene to downright hateful.

Take the same basic music, turn down the volume, sing like a normal human being and not like a banshee howling at the moon, ease up on the bass so it doesn't take over all my biological rhythms--my heart has its own tempo, thank you very much, and needs no external guidance--and plug in inoffensive lyrics, Jewish or not, and I'm fine with it.

Rock and heavy metal aside, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being the Happiest Girl in the Whole USA even though Raindrops Keep Falling on My Head. Just Pack Up Your Troubles in Your Old Kit Bag and be a Happy Wanderer. KWIM?
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 28 2013, 3:10 pm
BTW, OP, what do you mean that Jewish music doesn't "do it" for you? Do what, precisely? Music can do many things:
lift your mood
calm you down
make you depressed
give you a kick in the pants
get you moving
get you thinking
make you feel holy
make you feel unholy
block out noise
block out thoughts
bring back memories
and probably a whole lot of other things I haven't thought of. So what, exactly, are you looking for that Jewish music doesn't give you? And is it the music itself or the lyrics that do it? because many people find that music that offends them with secular lyrics, or even outright dirty lyrics, is actually pleasant when fitted with Jewish lyrics (it sometimes helps not to know what the original lyrics were). Shlock Rock and Maccabeats being cases in point.

My gripe, Jewish-music-wise, is that there seem to be no religious Hebrew-language lyricists. Granted we have vast works of the greatest Lyricist of them all, as well as his servant the Sweet Singer of Israel, but does EVERY song have to be a truncated possuk or a sliver of a tefillah, or worst of all, pieces of two unrelated psukim from two different places that don't really have anything to do with each other? Can't anyone write a religious song using their own words? I mean specifically modern Hebrew language, because the payyetanim were making up words as they went along, and their abstruse poetry studded with allusions to midrash and kabballah was never intended for the masses.

So what we have is either people writing religious songs in English that tend to be either excessively melodramatic, cloyingly sweet, or both--or people who don't bother writing at all and instead rely on a posuk from here and a posuk from there. Where are the lyricists?
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Redbird




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 28 2013, 4:19 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Leahs Mom wrote:
amother wrote:
moishsmom wrote:
I was like that till I got preg w my first and then I really worked hard to get it out of me. I felt like its x my unborn baby's fault that I like English music let him have his start in life n decide. Each to their own


Hu? What?


I get it. I tried quitting when I was pregnant - I didn't want my child to grow up exposed to it because if even if someone decides later in life not to listen to english music, it never really leaves them. My mother listened when she was young, and then stopped, but many years later craved it and had to listen to the "oldies." So by exposing your kid to English music, you are deciding for them that it will be a part of their life.
That is not true. For example, by the time children make their own choices you can have it either way. I grew up with english music. I love english music. Never thought about giving it up, its part of who I am and I dont find anything wrong with it. My parents listened as did my grandparents. That being said, my brother made his own decision, after high school, that he was not going to listen to english music anymore and he doesnt, almost 10 years later and he still does not.
Just because a parent listens to one kind of music does not mean that a childn has to listen to that kind of music as well. Ill give you a funny example. Every morning while my daughter is eating breakfast I put on the classical station. Its great. Every so often there is proper opera. She loves it. I hate it, but I leave it because I think its great that she loves a certain kind of music that I may not like.
Every individual in this world has their OWN choice of what music they will want to hear. NObody has to listen to music they dont want to.


Its like what chani8 said, People feel the music influences you subconsciously, and the wrong music has a negative effect. Even if you stop listening, and never go back, you never forget it.
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Redbird




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 28 2013, 4:38 pm
zaq wrote:
BTW, OP, what do you mean that Jewish music doesn't "do it" for you? Do what, precisely? Music can do many things:
lift your mood
calm you down
make you depressed
give you a kick in the pants
get you moving
get you thinking
make you feel holy
make you feel unholy
block out noise
block out thoughts
bring back memories
and probably a whole lot of other things I haven't thought of. So what, exactly, are you looking for that Jewish music doesn't give you? And is it the music itself or the lyrics that do it? because many people find that music that offends them with secular lyrics, or even outright dirty lyrics, is actually pleasant when fitted with Jewish lyrics (it sometimes helps not to know what the original lyrics were). Shlock Rock and Maccabeats being cases in point.

My gripe, Jewish-music-wise, is that there seem to be no religious Hebrew-language lyricists. Granted we have vast works of the greatest Lyricist of them all, as well as his servant the Sweet Singer of Israel, but does EVERY song have to be a truncated possuk or a sliver of a tefillah, or worst of all, pieces of two unrelated psukim from two different places that don't really have anything to do with each other? Can't anyone write a religious song using their own words? I mean specifically modern Hebrew language, because the payyetanim were making up words as they went along, and their abstruse poetry studded with allusions to midrash and kabballah was never intended for the masses.

So what we have is either people writing religious songs in English that tend to be either excessively melodramatic, cloyingly sweet, or both--or people who don't bother writing at all and instead rely on a posuk from here and a posuk from there. Where are the lyricists?


I mean move me, as in make feel an emotion, (happy sad, angry, motivated....) I am not saying there is no good jewish music, but not enough. I like carlebach style music, but I cant listen to that one type all the time. I like "Cry no more" by schwecky

The singers dont sound sincere. I care more that a singer sing from the heart, than be perfectly harmonized with a whole orchestra, and retouched with a computer. And when your song is just quoting pasuk repeatedly, your not telling much of a story.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 28 2013, 5:47 pm
OK, ladies, for the $64,00 question--DEFINE "Jewish music". Is it--
A song with lyrics taken from tefillah or a sefer?
A song with lyrics with a Biblical theme? (How about "Let My People Go"? )
Anything performed by a male-type person in a white shirt, dark suit and black velvet yarmulka?
Anything sanctioned by people in white shirts, dark suits and black velvet yarmulkas?
Anything melancholy in a minor key?
Klezmer?

Come on , people, I'm waiting. And don't tell me "I don't know what it is but I know it when I see it."
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Simple1




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 28 2013, 5:59 pm
Leahs Mom wrote:


The singers dont sound sincere. I care more that a singer sing from the heart, than be perfectly harmonized with a whole orchestra, and retouched with a computer. And when your song is just quoting pasuk repeatedly, your not telling much of a story.


MBD and Avraham Fried sing from the heart.

Habet mishamayim sung by Shlomo Simcha and Rivie Schwebel is very emotional
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sko0Hw6gYY

But those are older, more like classic - maybe you are referring to more modern (up-to-date) styles.

I don't listen to non Jewish music and so never developed a taste for it. But with Jewish music, I usually either love a song or don't care for it at all - so some songs "do it" for me and others don't.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 28 2013, 6:37 pm
zaq wrote:
OK, ladies, for the $64,00 question--DEFINE "Jewish music". Is it--
A song with lyrics taken from tefillah or a sefer?
A song with lyrics with a Biblical theme? (How about "Let My People Go"? )
Anything performed by a male-type person in a white shirt, dark suit and black velvet yarmulka?
Anything sanctioned by people in white shirts, dark suits and black velvet yarmulkas?
Anything melancholy in a minor key?
Klezmer?

Come on , people, I'm waiting. And don't tell me "I don't know what it is but I know it when I see it."


ok, I'll bite. "jewish music" is generally made up of a bunch of components:

1) a music style that was either created by non-jews or by unafilliated jews (not bashing, stating a historical fact. there are books about this)

2) a composer who identifies as a jew and writes his tunes for a specifically jewish audience.

3) a songwriter has either written lyrics or taken them from a biblical source, often setting the words to a tune incongruous with the meaning of the lyrics.

4) the music has been produced and publicized by a recording company that identifies as jewish and intends to sell to an audience that identifies as jewish.

I do not define bob dylan's or simon and garfunkel's works as jewish music, even though they were all jewish. those pieces were intended to be used in a secular setting, even though simon and garfunkel mention j esus in mrs. robinson.

by contrast, peter paul and mary have "light one candle," which is intended to be a chanukah song. they also have "dodi li," which I believe comes from shir hashirim and was apparently written by a jewish cantor. I do not consider peter paul and mary to be singers of jewish songs, though that last one should fit the category. (and I like the song, but that's not one of my criteria.)

salamone rossi, who wrote incredible baroque choral arrangements for shul, was considered to be too "non jewish" in style. his songs were banned by the jewish community at the time. he also got special treatment from the government because of his talents. the jewish community did not consider his compositions to be jewish music, even though it was all pretty much the words of davening. it would not have sold well in the jewish communities if they had had recording technology back then.

anyway, that's my take on it. nothing to do with black hats/white shirts. maybe I'll remember a few other criteria later...
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Redbird




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 28 2013, 7:40 pm
Simple1 wrote:
Leahs Mom wrote:


The singers dont sound sincere. I care more that a singer sing from the heart, than be perfectly harmonized with a whole orchestra, and retouched with a computer. And when your song is just quoting pasuk repeatedly, your not telling much of a story.


MBD and Avraham Fried sing from the heart.

Habet mishamayim sung by Shlomo Simcha and Rivie Schwebel is very emotional
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sko0Hw6gYY

But those are older, more like classic - maybe you are referring to more modern (up-to-date) styles.

I don't listen to non Jewish music and so never developed a taste for it. But with Jewish music, I usually either love a song or don't care for it at all - so some songs "do it" for me and others don't.


This is beautiful.
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Ashrei




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 28 2013, 10:03 pm
I kind of like The Groggers, but the song about Mindy is just not nice.
I like Bulletproof Stockings.
And Dovid (journey to the real you)
And some of Noah Lubin's songs. (leavning egypt)

And still looking. Smile

In fact, if anyone gets where I'm going, feel free to PM me with suggestions.

I define Jewish music as anything writen by a Torah Jew. I know there's a thin line - someday I'll be on the level to enjoy niggunim more, but for now, I'm here.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2013, 6:16 am
moishsmom wrote:
I was like that till I got preg w my first and then I really worked hard to get it out of me. I felt like its x my unborn baby's fault that I like English music let him have his start in life n decide. Each to their own


you shouldn't be online
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2013, 6:30 am
I love Jewish music.

The Ramones (Joey Ramone = Jeffrey Ross Hyman)

Kiss (Gene Simmons = Chaim Witz)

Bob Dylan (Robert Zimmerman)

Van Halen (David Lee Roth)

Paul Simon

Rush (Geddy Lee)

T-Rex (Marc Bolan)

Beastie Boys

Leonard Cohen

Cass Elliott

Carole King

Marianne Faithfull

Even Jim Croce was a Jew
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2013, 7:53 am
amother wrote:
I love Jewish music.

The Ramones (Joey Ramone = Jeffrey Ross Hyman)

Kiss (Gene Simmons = Chaim Witz)

Bob Dylan (Robert Zimmerman)

Van Halen (David Lee Roth)

Paul Simon

Rush (Geddy Lee)

T-Rex (Marc Bolan)

Beastie Boys

Leonard Cohen

Cass Elliott

Carole King

Marianne Faithfull

Even Jim Croce was a Jew


Love it.

Others:

- Elvis Presley

- Irving Berlin

- Leonard Bernstein

- Aaron Copland

- Jonathan Larson (any Rent Heads here?)

- Paul Simon

- Billy Joel
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2013, 8:22 am
The Hooters (Rob Hyman, Eric Bazillian), whose most famous song begins, "Holy Moses met the Pharaoh/Yeah, he tried to set him/straight/Looked him in the eye, 'let my people go'"
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shlomitsmum




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2013, 8:44 am
DrMom wrote:
amother wrote:
I love Jewish music.

The Ramones (Joey Ramone = Jeffrey Ross Hyman)

Kiss (Gene Simmons = Chaim Witz)

Bob Dylan (Robert Zimmerman)

Van Halen (David Lee Roth)

Paul Simon

Rush (Geddy Lee)

T-Rex (Marc Bolan)

Beastie Boys

Leonard Cohen

Cass Elliott

Carole King

Marianne Faithfull

Even Jim Croce was a Jew


Love it.

Others:

- Elvis Presley

- Irving Berlin

- Leonard Bernstein

- Aaron Copland

- Jonathan Larson (any Rent Heads here?)

- Paul Simon

- Billy Joel


And my teen angst muses...

Carole king aka Carol Joan Klein
Carly Simon aka Carly Elizabeth Simon
Wink
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cookiecutter




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2013, 11:58 am
I use them for different things. There is a limit to both the depth and breadth of the themes that you'll find in Jewish music (and in top 40 music as well), but there is far more intelligent music outside of the frum world. When I'm in the mood of something comfortable, I listen to frum music, like MBD, Avraham Fried, and Baruch Levine. When I work, I listen to instrumentals like Yanni, Riverdance, etc. (Some Natalie MacMaster and Secret Garden snuck into my Pandora feed, and now I have a thing for that stuff). When I exercise, I like poppy and hip hop type stuff.

FWIW, I find that Gospel and Emo can be more inspiring than frum music.
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June




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2013, 12:38 pm
a long time ago in camp we had a shiur on jewish/secular music, and the rav said this:
there is nothing wrong with secular music AS LONG AS:
1. the words don't make you do/think inappropriate things.
2. the music doesn't make you do/think inappropriate things.

I listen to Jewish music only, and I have music streams (jewishmusicstream.com, mostly music, etc.) playing most of the day. I switch between the streams when the music gets too kvetchy... what is with all those kvetchy songs??
My husband got me into classical and operas, so when I want to relax I sometimes listen to those. (He's more into chazzanus, he doesn't really listen to operas b/c of the women singers.)
I think non-Jewish music would speak to me much more than most Jewish songs, and I have a huge urge to listen, but I am working really hard not to go there. I think it is very hard to find secular music that is 100% appropriate, and I don't want to start with it and get hooked.
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CatLady




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2013, 12:39 pm
shlomitsmum wrote:
DrMom wrote:
amother wrote:
I love Jewish music.

The Ramones (Joey Ramone = Jeffrey Ross Hyman)

Kiss (Gene Simmons = Chaim Witz)

Bob Dylan (Robert Zimmerman)

Van Halen (David Lee Roth)

Paul Simon

Rush (Geddy Lee)

T-Rex (Marc Bolan)

Beastie Boys

Leonard Cohen

Cass Elliott

Carole King

Marianne Faithfull

Even Jim Croce was a Jew


Love it.

Others:

- Elvis Presley

- Irving Berlin

- Leonard Bernstein

- Aaron Copland

- Jonathan Larson (any Rent Heads here?)

- Paul Simon

- Billy Joel


And my teen angst muses...

Carole king aka Carol Joan Klein
Carly Simon aka Carly Elizabeth Simon
Wink


What about Paula Abdul, the Barenaked Ladies, Lou Reed, NOFX, New York Dolls (Sylvain Sylvain, a.k.a. Sylvain Mizrahi), Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys, J. Geils, the Bangles, and for those who don't share my musical sensibilities, there's Neil Diamond, Barry Manilow, Kenny G and Michael Bolton.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2013, 5:20 pm
"I write the songs that make the whole world sing/ I write the songs of love and special things/I write the songs that make the young girls cry/ I write the songs I write the songs...I am MUSIC and I write the songs....."

Barry Manilow.
Technically secular music, even though Mr. Manilow ne Pincus is technically Jewish. Maybe more than technically.

I can't see why anyone would object to a song like this on religious grounds. THIS is going to jeopardize someone's pure soul? Because "love" is a dirty word?

Would it really be all that different if the words were "I write the songs that make chazzonim pray/ I write the songs of cheder kinder at play/ I write the songs that make the kallahs cry/ I write the songs I write the songs..."

(C) 2013 Zenobia Zaqarias
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