Happy Camper LO But not Happy Camper Mami

superjew

Tue, Jul 30 2013, 12:41 pm

So I put my LO to sleep around 7pm She goes into her crib with a bottle. She drinks it and then plays around happily for AN HOUR or TWO or THREE. She can go on and on happily for a while if I let her.
I think her issue is she doesn't know how to self soothe herself and I dont know how to train her when shes just happy and content with playing.
Some times she does kvetch a little and then I'll wait it out to see what happens, but she just distracts herself and becomes happy again.
In the past when she did cry I patted her back till she fell asleep. So I know thats the issue, I did that since she was young and I guess now I want to sleep train her. I've sleep trained my son successfully. But he cried in his bed and I went in to comfort him every 5 minutes. That worked for him and he learned to self soothe after 3 days thank God.
But now, with her she's not even interested! And it takes so long for her to get into 'sleep mode' even.
And usually I have to leave the house around 8-9pm so this is really frustrating. I dont know what to do.

busydev

Tue, Jul 30 2013, 1:09 pm

how much does she sleep during a 24 hr period total? how many naps for how long? when does she wake in the morning? shes actually falling asleep 9ish it sounds like?

she should be sleeping on average 14 hours a day. is she? more? less?

Is she otherwise happy, or does the lack of sleep seem to be effecting her?

also bottles in bed are not the best idea out there... its a sleep prop and can cause dental/health issues in the long run. I give DS a bottle right before bed as part of his bedtime routine but take it with me when I leave him.

superjew

Tue, Jul 30 2013, 1:17 pm

she wakes 6-7 thats why I'm concerned about her late nights. she gets cranky a few hours later and thats when she goes for her nap around 9ish and then another nap later in the day (just told sitter to make it 2pm instead of 3/4) I'm going to see if the earlier nap will make a difference.

Also, re the bottle she finishes it before falling asleep and during the night she also drink it and drops. I check to see if it stays in her mouth due to bad teeth situation, but just like my son did, she drops it and plays around till falling asleep.

The thing is during the night she puts herself to sleep just fine. So I know she is capable, perhaps it is the too early sleep or too late nap etc I find her to be too young for just one nap though and she should sleep 12 hours at night so how do you get 14 hours total?

12 hr night + two naps should be ideal for that age no?
her naps are around 2 hours (give or take depending on her night)

busydev

Tue, Jul 30 2013, 1:37 pm

shes not supposed to sleep 12 hours at night. more like 10/11 hours and 2 naps according to a couple articles I just googled (like this one: http://www.webmd.com/parenting.....ldren ). 14 is an estimate/average, but pretty typical. If shes going into a nap at 3 or 4 and sleeping 2 hours then it makes sense shes not ready to sleep at 7. moving the nap up is def a good idea. and maybe a bit of a later bedtime may be called for even so.

When DS was around that age he had a nap at ~10, a nap at ~2:30 and went to bed 8-9pm. the naps were also about 2 hours. he had a couple feeds during the night (but almost never really woke up, slept thru the feed as did I) and we woke around 7/7:30.

I weaned him from night feeds at a year. since then hes slept from 8-7 most mornings (sometimes wakes at 6:45, very rarely but occasionally will wake even earlier) and takes one nap around 12:30 that lasts anywhere from 1.5hrs to 3 hours depending on the day. (so hes getting 11 hours at night plus an avg 2-3 hours in the day- so 13-14 hours a day generally).

groovy1224

Tue, Jul 30 2013, 1:47 pm

How old is she? How many hours she sleeps really depends on that..
Also why is it a problem if she plays so long? If she's happy, why does it matter what she's doing in there? You can still leave the house, since she'll put herself to sleep when she's ready. That's what my son does, and it hasn't bothered me- she may just be an early riser. Is she acting cranky and irritable to suggest that she's not getting enough sleep?
If you do think she needs more sleep, does she perhaps have too many toys in her crib? You may need to remove distractions and toys from there to help her wind down, and teach her that her crib is for sleeping, so when you put her in there, she knows it's not just a continuation of play time. One or two is okay, to entertain her till she winds down, but maybe you have too many?
Btw, my son has the exact same schedule you describe, and I tried moving his bed time later, but he still woke up between 6 and 7. Then he's ready for another nap around 9. Like I said, some kids are just early risers, regardless of when they go down.

superjew

Tue, Jul 30 2013, 2:02 pm

shes 9 months and later bed time is not an option, I want her to get used to the 7pm night schedule.
When she went for her nap at 3-4 she'd wake at 5, but I think she needs to be up at least 3 hours to get tired so like I said I moved her nap up and we'll see how that goes tonight.
There are NO toys in her crib. Her blanky and bottle. She just crawls around, stands up, blabbels away etc
The only thing I can think of is that sometimes I put her in there when I get dressed (for her to play) and I put toys in then, so maybe she associates the area with play time? Thats usually not more thatn 15 minutes a day though and she knows its sleep time when I put her in with her blanky and its dark etc (I do the sleep routing ritual same every night: wash up/bath, pjs, gnite cuddles and shema, into crib with blanky/bottle)
Think that might be a problem?
Its not an issue if I knew that EVERY time she'd put herself to sleep. (my son did/does that, no issue)
She could play around for hours and I can tell shes tired but she just cant settle herself to relax and I dont know how to teach her to self soothe. When I lay her down she gets cozy and wants me to pat her back, but if I just leave (to train her) she sits up and starts playing again. LOL it sounds funny but its frustrating (probably for her too)

superjew

Tue, Jul 30 2013, 4:00 pm

oliveoil wrote:

Sound like she's just not tired.

It could be thats what keeps her up for a while. But once she DOES get tired she still can't soothe herself. Which I'm trying to train her (by calming her and then leaving the room) but she just sits up and starts playing again.
I think with the change of nap and then just let her figure it out on her own, after a few nights she'll be trained....I hope.
I'm just not used to this, because with my son, he played too, but when he got tired/ready to sleep, he self soothed (and before training, he cried a little, I calmed him down and he kept doing that till he fell asleep, not once I walk out start playing again) she just doesn't give it up! lol

busydev

Tue, Jul 30 2013, 4:22 pm

try an earlier nap so she is more tired (which you are doing)

maybe then try to sit in the room but dont touch her. esp if she only sits up after you leave. for a few days just sit. slightly further each day. and then start going out slightly earlier each day till she learns. im assuming you have a good bedtime routine. if you dont then work on one asap to calm her down so she doesnt get excited then.

and try not to compare your two kids. every kid will be a whole new situation, different strengths, weaknesses, personalities etc. if shes not that cranky then it could be she doesnt need as much sleep.

I dont think 15 min of playing in the morning would have caused it, but maybe try not to do that and just make cribs about sleep.

hatzlocha!!

ETA also has it ever happened to you that you go to bed and then cannot fall asleep and are then really tired and still cant fall asleep. what usually helps me is to get out of bed and find something to do for 10-15 minutes and then I fall straight asleep.

maybe something similar is happening to her (esp since I think you said that she puts her self to sleep during the night no problem). she is put to bed and not yet tired. and then plays. and then when she is tired she cannot get up to falling asleep and has a hard time.

really (unless for whatever reason you really cannot do this) I would do the following:
wait till she is tired/ in her sleep window. (be this 7, 8 or 9pm) and then do bedtime routine and put her down. she should pretty much fall right asleep (I would stay in the room as I mentioned earlier just to make sure) then after a few days of her connecting bedtime routine to going to sleep, start moving bedtime up a bit. say 15 minutes at a time, until she is back to the 7pm bedtime.

bed time routine is great for babies and toddlers. DS's room is also our living room. We have the light on an automatic timer. so it turns off at 7:45 every day. DS could have taken a late nap or be totally hyper, but when the light goes off its like a switch and he starts acting tired even if he wasnt 3 seconds before. if we turn the light off earlier (which we have occasionally like when we have a babysitter-not hours earlier, but 15-20 minutes) then it works as well and he is ready for bedtime and goes to bed nicely.

superjew

Wed, Jul 31 2013, 10:08 am

Gmorning

So the earlier nap definietly did work because she was yawning and tired 630. I got her ready and did our bedtime routine. She was in bed 7 sharp. She drank her bottle and did her 'cozy thing' with her blankie I was sure she'd fall asleep. Sure enough, she finished her bottle about 20-30 minutes later and shes standing and chatting away. I ignore her. My son sleeps in the same room and I made a rule that he must lay on his pillow and whisper (no jumping or talking) by bedtime (he still babbles to himself, with real stories lol, hes 3) but now I make him whisper so she doesn't get excited. Still, at 8 she was happily chatting, a few minutes later she did start getting cranky and cry (which is a lot sooner than usual, so thats a good sign) but when I walk in to calm her down she gets really excited to see me and is fine playing again. Then I feel like its a war to get her sleepy.
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I think maybe I should get a room darkener shade because it isn't really dark in the room until 830 in this season. That might be the issue.
I'm going to do that and start sleep training her by just sitting in the room like s/o suggested. Question though, do I talk to her or touch her at all or just sit there?
She seems to get overtired but in a happy way instead of in a cranky way. and thats new to me so Im stumped.

busydev

Wed, Jul 31 2013, 11:17 am

I wouldnt talk or react. just sit there. pretend your sleeping. (thats what I do when occasionally DS wakes early 2 mornings in a row, I go in and tell him its sleeping time still and the "fall asleep" in the chair in his room. I also "go to sleep" at bedtime when we are in a new place and I dont want him to cry because of it. at home I can leave after I finish good night songs, but I dont like doing that in an unfamiliar place when he generally will cry)

It could take a few days till she gets the message (no one says sleep training happens overnight). for sure try darkening the room thats a very good idea. and it could be that she just doesnt need the sleep yet. some people need more sleep then others. the same goes for kids.