No more labels | Imamother

shabbatiscoming

Sat, Sep 14 2013, 6:05 pm

I copied this from someone's facebook feed. I thought it said it all.

"I imagine an Israel in which the convenient labels we all use are too imprecise, and thus fade away. Instead of asking — are you dati or hiloni? are you haredi or national religious? — the questions would be more exploratory: What, if any, is your connection to God, and how do you express that? How, if at all, do you experience the holiness of the land of Israel? What is your vision for the intersection between Torah study and societal engagement? What does Shabbat look like for you, and how has that changed over your lifetime?"

FranticFrummie

Sun, Sep 15 2013, 12:39 am

That's a lovely idea, but I don't think it will work until Moshiach comes.

As long as we are so varied across the board, we tend to need labels as a shortcut to make the connections we need. Writing an essay every time you meet someone, look for a community or pick a new school can be burdensome. Humans are tribal by nature, and "my tribe / your tribe" distinctions have been around as long as history. People want to know if you are Cain or Abel, Yaccov or Eisav, Isaac or Ishmael.

We are slowly moving towards the "no more labels" point in society, as I've heard that the US Census is thinking of doing away with the "race" section of the form. As people intermarry and have more biracial children, the forms are too unwieldily and confusing, and people don't know how to fit themselves in just one box. Some day, who knows when, we'll be able to move towards the same goal.

Personally, I'm an Ashkafardic Sepharnazic Chabadchik! Tongue Out

DrMom

Sun, Sep 15 2013, 2:01 am

It depends on the situation.

Looking to sell your car? No, I can't see why you'd care if the buyer was chiloni or dati or whatever. Want to hire someone to paint your living room? Ditto.

Looking for an eid for your son's wedding? It matters...

Tablepoetry

Sun, Sep 15 2013, 2:09 am

Frantic Frummie said it - people are looking for shortcuts.
Especially in Israel, people don't like to waste time with vague wordy descriptions. To the point, brisk, and onwards.
I do think Israeli society tends to label TOO much, and I do think that some of these labels will at some point be obsolete or change.....but other labels will replace them. The labelling system won't disappear so fast.

BTW, American society uses labels too, just different ones: WASP/ JAP/ New Yorker (meant to convey a lifestyle)/ Midwesterner (same)....etc, etc.

Raisin

Sun, Sep 15 2013, 6:09 am

shabbat, would you send your dd to a chiloni or chareidi school? No? Why? Because these labels do matter. It would be disastrous for your child to be the only shomer shabbat kid in the class, or the only kid with a tv/computer in her home. Even if all the parents of the kids in this school were wonderful, open minded people who don't care about labels, it would still be hard for your kid to be different.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Sep 15 2013, 6:14 am

Raisin wrote:

But the quote that I quoted has nothing to do with what you wrote. It is asking in a much more esoteric way than in practical ways.

If there could be such a school where all different kinds of jews would go, that would be amazing. THATS the point of the quote, at least thats what I think it was.

DrMom

Sun, Sep 15 2013, 6:27 am

There are schools like the Keshet network of schools that try to be a bridge between the dati and chiloni sector. I don't know of any charedi families who would send there.

I am DL (if you will permit me to categorize) and I probably wouldn't send there because (among other factors) the level of limudei kodesh is probably lower than what I can get by sending to an all-dati environment. It would take a very confident child to not feel uneasy when 1/2 his classmates are jabbering about going to the beach of shabbat or whatever. I don't think it's fair to most children to do that.

I can teach my children to not dislike those who are different, but I don't think it makes sense to pretend that there are no differences in outlook, lifestyle, etc. Let's not sacrifice common sense on the altar of political correctness.

Ruchel

Sun, Sep 15 2013, 10:09 am

Labels can help you see clearer.

If a Satmar woman tells me she shaves her head, well.
But if she's lite MO and she tells me she thinks she "has to", I'll tell her lite MO wise she doesn't.