big boys eating my Shabbos food before Shabbos

amother

Fri, Sep 27 2013, 5:49 am

It drives me crazy when people start eating food I worked hard to make FOR SHABBOS on Friday, or Yom Tov leftovers I want for Shabbos. But I feel so bad and guilty denying my sons. I keep saying that weekday day food is for the weekday.

Am I teaching good middos or giving them a complex? Maybe they're starving in yeshiva? How can I invite guests when my own sons are apparently starving?

One relative says the problem comes in because in general, our house is very free with food, so it's a novelty to hear no.

One of my sons reassured me that he and his brother didn't go to sleep hungry last night when they came home from yeshiva Motza'ei Simchas Torah, but I feel terrible.

I know I'm just panicking from overwork (which I have been enjoying), and oversaturated with Holocaust tales from childhood...

(Amother because although I'm sure this is completely normal, I don't want my sons to get a bad reputation for shidduchim.)

shalhevet

Fri, Sep 27 2013, 6:01 am

I really don't understand. Any child over the age of 2 or 3 is old enough to understand that this kugel/ cake/ ice cream/ salad is for Shabbos and should have the willpower to save it lekoved Shabbos (and it's a mitzva to do so). There's nothing wrong in telling them not to eat it now.

OTOH you should have food available for hungry teenage boys - but fruit/ bread and spreads/ cornflakes/ leben etc. is also good, healthy food and you don't need to prepare it.

Mrs.K

Fri, Sep 27 2013, 6:33 am

I'm always prepared for this situation. I buy bagels every Friday to ensure that my shnitzle and kugel is safe. (Expensive for a large family, I know, but with 4 kids 4-10, it's a total of 20 shekel.)

If I can't get out to the bagel store I know to make extra of everything plus a extra big soup.

shalhevet

Fri, Sep 27 2013, 7:14 am

Mrs.K wrote:

Isn't there a minhag or something to eat shabbos food on Friday afternoon? Something about tasting Shabbos food on Erev Shabbos? Am I making that up?

Do you get the difference? It says toameha chayim zachu - those who taste it[s food] merit life = tasting the food to check it tastes good and if you need to adjust the seasoning etc. It doesn't say ochleha = eating [a quantity] of the food. Shabbos food is for Shabbos.

amother

Fri, Sep 27 2013, 7:47 am

OP here. B"H there is plenty of weekday food: bread, cheese, eggs, milk, coffee, cereal, tomatoes, cucumbers. That's what I want them to eat. But they gravitate towards prepared, cooked fleishigs. I feel bad telling boys who come home from yeshiva that they can't have any "real" food.

Tamiri

Fri, Sep 27 2013, 7:57 am

Mrs.K wrote:

How many men or older boys have you seen just take a taste before shabbos? More often they'll take a heaping plate of everything and say that they're 'just tasting'. I'm not saying it's right or good, but I haven't seen any older boys stop at a teaspoon.

And I, for example, have never seen it. In my parent's home we could never eat Shabbat food before Shabbat, which was frustrating of course. And here: what's the point of a special Shabbat meal if it will get eaten before? In fact, in my parent's home, we were supposed to eat lightly on Friday so as not to "spoil" our Shabbat appetites. My parents were HORRIFIED that in Israel, some people had shnitzel or something else fleishig for Friday lunch! And even after I was married, and DH and I went out for a nice lunch on a Friday afternoon (nice = meat), I did not tell my parents. That's how ingrained "wait for the Shabbat meal" was. Both of them American born and educated, not European.
I understood that halachically, you are supposed to crave the Shabbat food. Not eat it before.

Sanguine

Fri, Sep 27 2013, 8:03 am

They're not starving but we often ignore lunch on Friday. It's like dieting - If you're hungry you'll keep taking little snacks, If you're full you can control yourself.

We have rolls for friday lunch (we don't usually buy rolls so it's Friday lunch treat) - DH is in charge of that meal (not me) - There's either tuna with it or they make toastim. Can also microwave potatoes - You need lots of starch to fill boys (I have big kids too)

You have to fill them up but it doesn't have to be kugel (unless you want to make a separate kugel for Friday)

Mrs.K

Fri, Sep 27 2013, 8:14 am

Tamiri wrote:

Mrs.K wrote:

And my family is the same. We'd have pizza after school on Friday and then nothing until shabbos.

I'm just saying that since hungry boys may have a difficult time stopping at 1 bite of shnitzle, either make a ton or don't allow it at all. The 'small taste' thing is nice in theory but not in practice.

grace413

Fri, Sep 27 2013, 8:41 am

amother wrote:

OP again. My younger yeshiva bachur is cooking up a pot of noodles for himself. He says please don't talk to him about this subject. We "are" having (another) huge Shabbos seuda in five hours...

Actually, I think that's an excellent solution. It's not food you made for Shabbos, it's not expensive and he's cooking it himself. Make sure he washes the pot when he's finished. Teenage boys eat a lot.

Sanguine

Fri, Sep 27 2013, 8:55 am

Or make something else easy but filling - How about hotdogs - Not a Shabbos food but very filling with rolls or pita. You can boil them in a pot, or if you have a BBq that's good too (even better if this whole meal takes place outside)

On Erev Pesach when everyone is starving and supper will be much much later and you can't eat rolls, I make my favorite supper for a late lunch - A big bag of chips in a large pan - you cook it a long time till the chips are almost done, Then you slice up a package of hotdogs and mix it up and cook longer till the hotdogs are done. You need room in the oven for it. And don't tell me that no one will have an appetite for Matza (seriously, who has an appetite for Matza?)

The main thing is they shouldn't be hungry

Tablepoetry

Sat, Sep 28 2013, 12:29 pm

Some kids really prefer a hot meal, especially in the afternoon, especially Israeli kids who are used to eating the big meal in the afternoon. Subsisting on cornflakes and bread or fruit and leben till the meal at 8 pm isn't going to do it for many kids.

I do try and make a hot meal for Friday afternoon. I'll make pasta (easy) or warm up something from a couple of days ago, and then add something fresh that I'm making for shabbat (like schnitzel). Schnitzel tastes best fresh from the pan anyway.

I do think if your boys are only home once a week, you should perhaps try and make them a hot something Friday afternoon.

OTOH, I totally get the feeling of being hounded by teenage boys who always want something proper and cooked to eat.

Tablepoetry

Sat, Sep 28 2013, 12:36 pm

BTW, I know that on Fridays a lot of sephardic families traditionally eat couscous (with a hearty vegetable and chicken broth on top). This is on Friday afternoon. So different customs.

I don't think it's particularly healthy for a teenager or anyone to nosh on carbs all day because he's hungry. And for some reason, a proper hot meal seems to take the edge off hunger more than a bowl of cornflakes.

etky

Sat, Sep 28 2013, 1:54 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Mrs.K wrote:

Same here. Friday afternoon food is pasta with cheese or an egg or pita with salatim or anything else that takes under 5min. to throw together. The thought of eating besari on Friday before Shabbat is blasphemy in this house. This is how both DH and I were raised. Aside from the issue of being hungry for Shabbat food, eating besari twice on the same day seems excessive to me - though I do know that teenage boys live on a different planet than me in this respect.

Tamiri

Sat, Sep 28 2013, 2:10 pm

Besari twice a day makes life easier. Back in the day (when I was in the army, let's call it...) everyone had their minhagim. The Yemenites ate only soup and pita for Shabbat dinner. But they probably had a good meal Friday afternoon. The Moroccans had no trouble putting away a decent Friday lunch AND dinner.. ditto the Tunesians. MMMmmmm that Friday couscous (not the mention Tuesday's) and I guess the leftovers could be served for dinner, along with salatiim and so on. No one had a HUGE amount of meat back then. It was more like a side dish, as opposed to our American home where it was the main event.

Tablepoetry

Sat, Sep 28 2013, 2:16 pm

etky wrote:

eating besari twice on the same day seems excessive to me - though I do know that teenage boys live on a different planet than me in this respect.

LOL. They do indeed.
But in any case, it doesn't need to be besari twice - if the op's son is happy with just noodles, he'd probably be pleased with hot pasta and some store bought sauce on top, sprinkled with parmesan. Takes 5 min to prepare, but feels more like a 'meal' than cornflakes.