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Intuitive eating
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amother


 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 7:25 am
Zissy, I was just thinking this morning how I wished to get an update from this forum because I want to see how everyone is doing. My scale is broken and today I was about to weigh myself and I was like "who cares?" I feel good, my clothes fit, I'm eating intuitively most of the time and I know that a number is just a number. I dont even plan to get a new battery.
The point of my story is that this does work! Im also a perfectionist and as crazy as it sounds I first read Geneen Roth's intuitive eating guidelines 10 years ago (!) but only put the "dont eat and read at the same time" rule in place a year and a half ago. THAT was my breakthrough, that was the hardest thing to change but I stuck with it and that is why I feel like I have conquered many of my emotional eating habits. (so thank you for posting about this book then!! It was a salvation for me !) As a perfectionist I always had the feeling of "I blew it, forget it, I'm just going to eat until I burst because I'm already too full." But your body does not work that way. You don't need to read the whole book, or even a whole chapter. Pick one guideline and see how it works for you. It's you body, it's your own self that you're looking out for. You don't need to be perfect right away. its not possible!!! But keep trying and telling yourself you are worth it. As I said, it took me so many years to get to this point of being mostly healed. Whatever you do, please please don't diet as it will only psychologically hold you back from getting to the place where you trust your own body's instincts.
good luck please keep us posted on your journey!
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zissy2004




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 8:52 am
Thanks so much for your reply!
I will re-read it because just before I have eaten baked potatoes from the tray, standing so that was totally not mindful!
But, we will not bash ourselves! Smile
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Liebs




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 8:56 am
I'm debating between this or weight watchers....

Which books would you say helped you the most? (If I were to order 2)

How do you know if physical hunger vs. emotional. Emotional hunger feels hungry.

Have you lost weight or just maintained?
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zissy2004




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 9:03 am
BTW if you search for intuitive eating on 3 fat chicks.com, you will find a monthly thread with SO much info and inspiration Smile
I can read for hours!
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zissy2004




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 9:04 am
Liebs wrote:
I'm debating between this or weight watchers....

Which books would you say helped you the most? (If I were to order 2)

How do you know if physical hunger vs. emotional. Emotional hunger feels hungry.

Have you lost weight or just maintained?


Please start off with the kindle only book by Josie spinardi called how to have your cake and skinny jeans too.
Google the overfed head and you should find a free e-book.
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Liebs




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 9:21 am
How do you know when satisfied?
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zissy2004




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 9:48 am
Liebs wrote:
How do you know when satisfied?


I'm struggling with that as well but I think it's kind of a pleasantly full feeling. Comfortable, not stuffed.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 10:03 am
Liebs wrote:
I'm debating between this or weight watchers....

Which books would you say helped you the most? (If I were to order 2)

How do you know if physical hunger vs. emotional. Emotional hunger feels hungry.

Have you lost weight or just maintained?


Physical hunger starts small and grows. You feel it in the pit of your stomach. All food begins to smell appetizing. You can take a drink, or distract yourself, and you're still aware of it.

Emotional hunger is often connected to a more sudden craving one particular thing, and when you assess your body, you realize that you are not really hungry, but you still want to eat it. A lot.

Physical hunger is assuaged pretty quickly. If I have been eating right, I generally have had enough after 5-10 minutes, unless I'm eating really slowly. After that, the hunger generally morphs into the emotional kind, more about the comfort of eating than the joy and satisfaction of feeding physical hunger.

Emotional hunger doesn't end quickly. Sometimes, I don't stop until I am uncomfortably stuffed.

In general, after the first stage of giving up dieting (the "donuts and doritos" phase described in the Spinardi book), physical hunger doesn't demand sweets. Emotional hunger loves them, even when I am aware they will cause me a lot of discomfort -- headaches, tiredness, hot flashes, and mood swngs.

After satisfying a physical hunger, the body can offer an incredible sense of well being that just doesn't happen when I have overeaten. Emotional hunger says, "I don't care, I want it anyway."

For more information, the reading is helpful.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 12:47 pm
Liebs wrote:
I'm debating between this or weight watchers....

Which books would you say helped you the most? (If I were to order 2)

How do you know if physical hunger vs. emotional. Emotional hunger feels hungry.

Have you lost weight or just maintained?


The books that helped me the most were definitely Geneen Roth's, "Feeding the Hungry Heart" its a great intro to see that you're really not alone (or crazy) and help you realize why you might eat the way you do.
Her "breaking free from emotional eating" is helpful in terms of giving you guidelines and tips. As I said before, Josie Spinardi's book really helped me put the guidelines into practice, but hers is more losing weight focused versus Roth is more coming to terms with the emotional reasons we overeat.

The way I know if I'm hungry is "the gefilte fish" test, a simple question I ask myself if I'm not sure if I am really hungry. "Would you eat a piece of gefilte fish?" If the answer is "yes, that sounds delicious" then most probably my body really needs nourishment, if the answer is "nah I'll pass" then I am probably not very hungry.
Of course, once I do realize I would eat gefilte fish, I can eat whatever I want, be it fettucine alfredo, a bagel, or, in fact, gefilte fish - whatever I think would satisfy me the most.
You may have a different food to judge your hunger by, but the concept is still there.

From the time I was at my highest weight to now I have lost 15 pounds. It isn't very much, but I was never very overweight to begin with, and I have a small frame so that weight makes a big difference. But MUCH MORE than the weight, although of course I'm happier to be thin, is the fact that I don't think I'm a slave to food, the fact that I realize I'm not a crazy person who should lock my pantry, and that I don't keep blaming my problems on how much I eat. Oh, and that I don't eat anymore to the point of feeling sick.
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wife2




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 2:20 pm
Intuitive eating is something you need to commit yourself to also. It is not only about eating when you are physically hungry - there is a lot of emotional work and solving your life problems about why you eat. You need to explore when you eat and there is a lot of mind work involved. There are times that you KNOW you are eating because you are angry, lonely, feel like you deserve it, feel spiritually empty, etc. but you need to still stop yourself from eating. Emotional eating means that you get pleasure (temporary) while you eat and then you feel worse after, still have your problem that caused you to eat, and you gained weight. Geneen Roth is EXCELLENT. She has a lot of different books. Again, it is not only about the facts - eating when hungry, eating without distractions. You need to really deal with your emotions as well and face them head on.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 3:24 pm
Hi just discovered your thread and I not trying to hijack it. But IE makes so much sense to me because its all about how you EAT, not about what you weigh. How you eat is in your control, what you weigh is not. In fact, in general when people start to control their body size by Dieting, it seems like it works for a while, and then Hashem says 'ha ha' (with a kind, caring sort of smile) 'you think you can control your body size? I am in charge of that, so actually now I am going to make your BIGGER so you remember who is in charge!! :-)!' Whereas with IE, you listen to what Hashem is telling you , through your body, about when, what and how much to eat. And let him take care of the rest. Now I'll have to make time to read the whole thread. You ladies are brilliant.
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Liebs




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 3:29 pm
wife2 wrote:
Intuitive eating is something you need to commit yourself to also. It is not only about eating when you are physically hungry - there is a lot of emotional work and solving your life problems about why you eat. You need to explore when you eat and there is a lot of mind work involved. There are times that you KNOW you are eating because you are angry, lonely, feel like you deserve it, feel spiritually empty, etc. but you need to still stop yourself from eating. Emotional eating means that you get pleasure (temporary) while you eat and then you feel worse after, still have your problem that caused you to eat, and you gained weight. Geneen Roth is EXCELLENT. She has a lot of different books. Again, it is not only about the facts - eating when hungry, eating without distractions. You need to really deal with your emotions as well and face them head on.


So ho do you deal instead of food? For ex: if you are going crazy say bedtime and the cookie gets u thru calmly and now can't have it...?
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Blue jay




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 4:44 pm
Liebs wrote:
So ho do you deal instead of food? For ex: if you are going crazy say bedtime and the cookie gets u thru calmly and now can't have it...?



Im jumping in to the conversation Smile

Lately, I have just been praying! For Ha-shem to give me strength to be calm and get everyone off to bed. I smiled when I read your post because, I KNOW how crazy bedtime can be! and that is usually the time I tend to emotionally overeat.
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Liebs




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 26 2014, 6:51 am
This IS when I eat frozen cookies!
I guess I really need to be praying a whole day!!
Today I went out w/ friend and stopped after 3/4 of bagel, but wasn't sure if I was seriously satisfied. I def wasn't full-far from it but I think it was enough bec was hard to cont being mindful as I ate. BUT I so badly wanted to finish the bagel....
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Blue jay




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 26 2014, 4:43 pm
Liebs wrote:
This IS when I eat frozen cookies!
I guess I really need to be praying a whole day!!
Today I went out w/ friend and stopped after 3/4 of bagel, . I def wasn't full-far from it but I think it was enough bec was hard to cont being mindful as I ate. BUT I so badly wanted to finish the bagel....



but wasn't sure if I was seriously satisfied

Whenever you feel like you are close to satisfied but aren't sure, thats your cue to eat a little more and promise yourself you can have it all if you really want to! You probably would have been more satisfied if you ate the whole bagel or even 9/10ths of the bagel and left a small crumb behind! Next time you have a bagel keep this is mind... Smile
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amother


 

Post Mon, Oct 27 2014, 7:08 am
Great Article:
From here:
http://dropitandeat.blogspot.c.....ht%29

Start counting your calories boys and girls!

Should they start weighing and measuring
everything they eat?
This scares me. Really it does. The US government, the FDA more specifically, has decided to encourage kids and their educators and families—I.e. everyone—to start tracking their calories, because, you know, doesn’t that solve the ‘obesity epidemic’? Well, no, it doesn’t—and it may cause more harm than good.

Their stated goal is to get kids and families to start reading labels and think more about what and how much they eat. Innocent enough, right? Well I don’t think so. Maybe I’m biased because I see far too many kids and adults, stuck in their heads with too much information; they spend time calorie counting, and limit their choices to single portions of foods because that’s what the label says is the ‘right’ amount. They allow the label to define their personal need, as if serving size was one-size-fits-all, when really it’s designed to provide information about nutritional value per serving, based on “usual” portions. They’ve lost their intuitive sense of how to regulate their intake.

What’s wrong with this campaign?

Let’s start with the messages in this campaign, and then you decide how helpful the guidance is. Here are a few highlights, shown indented.

The end of childhood.

Keep track of the calories you eat throughout the day. To find out what your “target” calories per day are, visit www.choosemyplate.gov .


Should kids really be tracking their calories, as if simply knowing their magic number would make everything all right? Calorie calculators are far from accurate, and don’t take into account a fair assessment of muscle mass which increases calorie requirement. They fail to adjust for individual variation in caloric need, aside for activity level. Larger sized body? You’ll get prompted with a CDC message that you’re at a high BMI and can choose to move to a ‘healthier’ weight—with no assessment of risk factors, and without regard to whether this has historically been a healthy place for you (based on your growth curves, if you’re a child, or your weight history, if you’re an adult).

I tried it out, for the sake of this piece. Where are the fats, I wondered? The sweets? Where’s the healthy, balanced diet? Exchanges from all food groups are included except for the oils and fats (fats may be components of foods in each category, but there was no place for added fats like healthy oils)—despite acknowledging separately that they provide essential nutrients.

They do identify a calorie level for what’s called empty calories—which I was pleased to see—but they don't include it as part of my daily meal plan! Surely they need to be included—because forbidding them will only lead to deprivation and preoccupation with getting them. Omitting them surely sends a message—that they are bad, and kids and adults will feel bad including them.


The impact on real kids

This might be just what Dan needs to meet his nutritional needs.
Dan decided to become a vegetarian last year, along with a family member because he cares about animals. Fine enough, as far as I’m concerned. But then his high school health teacher (using the FDA curriculum) directed him and his classmates—regardless of their size—to reduce their fat and sugar intake and choose foods lower in calories. You know, because of the ‘obesity epidemic’.

Problem is, Dan was thin from the start. And his intake was limited enough. And being tall, and active, resulted in inappropriate weight loss, during a time that weight gain is appropriate and necessary to support growth and development. Guidance from a respected figure like your high school teacher seems like a logical thing to follow—especially when it’s coming from the US government’s program. Yet Dan is one of many, many kids I’ve seen negatively impacted by the direction of their health or science teacher.


Are you eating just for calories?

Kids, like adults, eat for all kinds of reasons—because they’re stressed or anxious, because they’re tired, because they’re procrastinating getting their work done and because their friends are snacking, to name a few. Just telling them ‘here’s how much to eat’ fails to acknowledge the many obstacles to ‘Just doing it’. What if we taught them how to moderate portions and how to manage stress, arming them with alternative coping skills?

If you consume more calories than you burn, you gain weight.

I’m tired of weight gain being framed as a negative. Yes, they’ll gain weight! Isn’t that what growing kids are supposed to be doing?

400 calories or more per serving is high; 100 calories per serving is moderate

Yes, so what? The teenage athletes or kids in super growth modes might need closer to the high end than the low for calories per snack.

Consider stuffing a pita or wrapping a low-fat whole grain tortilla as a lower-fat alternative to some breads.

Why lower fat alternative? And how many breads are high fat anyway—unless we’re talking about croissants, which we don’t typically refer to as bread! And why pull out fat as a problem nutrient to be watched? There’s no shortage of evidence that low fat diets have failed us in our attempt to control weight.

Read the Label to see which foods are lower in nutrients to get less of — then replace one high-fat or high-calorie item you would have ordered with one that has lower calories or fat.

Again, why villainize fats? Maybe portions to meet individual’s needs would be more appropriate to address.

Choose foods with less sugar.

For the record, you should know that a glass of milk—plain, unsweetened milk (yes, even organic and even more so fat free) contains a decent amount of sugar. Natural sugar, called lactose, that hasn’t been linked to disease development nor to obesity. And dried fruit? And fresh—if it had a label? All are also high in sugar and need not be avoided. Perhaps this needs to be clarified in their materials.

Nuts and dried fruits can make great snacks because they often contain nutrients to get more of – as long as you follow the serving size!

Does that mean kids need to limit their portion to ¼ cup—even of their calorie needs are high?

Why this needs to change

I worry about the impact on our kids.
Dieting is one precipitator of eating disorders; a significant percentage of those struggling with an eating disorder started off with what seemed like an innocent diet. And we surely don’t need to increase this population.
Kids need enough calories to support growth. Weight loss is generally not indicated in kids.

General educators are not skilled enough to nuance the recommendations individually, and may have their own nutrition and diet baggage, so to speak. The teacher educating kids to calorie count who perhaps is also on Atkins is not the person I’d want influencing my children’s eating.
I certainly support nutrition education in schools. But I’d like to see a different type of education.

Imagine this

What if we taught this in schools instead? (adapted from Drop the Diet, Lieberman and Sangster link):


Eat breakfast within a half hour of waking.
Include 3 meals and 2-3 snacks daily, at a minimum. Avoid going more than 3 ½ - 4 hours without eating (during waking hours, of course).
Avoid compensating for a less-than-stellar day of eating; consider a clean slate, forgiving yourself for less-than-ideal eating.
Shut the TV and the electronics when eating, and work on eating mindfully.
Keep all food in the kitchen—not the TV room, not the bedroom.
Use your senses; smell, see, feel, hear and taste your food, and truly enjoy eating.
Beware of false fullness from drinking lots of water or non-caloric beverages, or eating large volume of low calorie foods.
Ask yourself “Am I hungry?” Consider other means to satisfy those other eating triggers when you aren’t hungry.
Clean up the environment. Keep foods off the counter to prevent them from calling to you. But eat foods you enjoy when you do need to eat. Then use the strategies above to manage portions.

As for the adults impacted by this campaign, be aware that at best, approximately 1 in 5 people who intentionally lose weight successfully keep it off for more than a year—and few studies track outcomes beyond this point. But maintaining lost weight should not be the sole measure of success. Weight suppression data identifies the risks that maintaining a weight below one’s highest weight creates.

Let’s not be short sighted and worsen one problem in an attempt to improve the health of our kids. There really is a better way.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Oct 28 2014, 8:58 pm
I have been following this post and finally decided to join in. I need to loose about 15 lbs. while it may not seem like a lot considering I am 4'10" it is significant not to mention I feel bad about the way I look. I want to try intuitive eating but I feel like I am so lost. Up until a few years ago I never dieted. I lost all the weight after my last baby except a few pounds and decided to go on my first diet. I think it was low carb but I've done so many diets since then I really can't remember. I read the post today about the 17 day diet and have been researching it. I think I am borderline having an eating disorder. No purging or pills or anything like that but obsessing about my weight and doing all sorts of crazy diets such as a high fat low carb ketosis diet, and a super low calorie diet. Nothing has made me loose weight by the way. My thyroid is perfect. I am not even sure if I know anymore what is healthy. I used to be a vegetarian and then I started eating meat. I am so confused by all the different health advice. Ive done paleo. I don't know if whole grains are good or bad etc. How can I eat intuitively if I don't even know whats healthy?
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 28 2014, 11:25 pm
amother wrote:
I have been following this post and finally decided to join in. I need to loose about 15 lbs. while it may not seem like a lot considering I am 4'10" it is significant not to mention I feel bad about the way I look. I want to try intuitive eating but I feel like I am so lost. Up until a few years ago I never dieted. I lost all the weight after my last baby except a few pounds and decided to go on my first diet. I think it was low carb but I've done so many diets since then I really can't remember. I read the post today about the 17 day diet and have been researching it. I think I am borderline having an eating disorder. No purging or pills or anything like that but obsessing about my weight and doing all sorts of crazy diets such as a high fat low carb ketosis diet, and a super low calorie diet. Nothing has made me loose weight by the way. My thyroid is perfect. I am not even sure if I know anymore what is healthy. I used to be a vegetarian and then I started eating meat. I am so confused by all the different health advice. Ive done paleo. I don't know if whole grains are good or bad etc. How can I eat intuitively if I don't even know whats healthy?


At your height, the only way to go is to count calories. I'm sorry to say, most little people just don't get to eat very much, unless they exercise. I only get like 1150 cals a day unless I exercise. It's so unfair.

(ETA - super low calorie diets trigger a hormone in the brain that eventually leads to a binge)
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amother


 

Post Wed, Oct 29 2014, 10:55 am
amother wrote:
I have been following this post and finally decided to join in. I need to loose about 15 lbs. while it may not seem like a lot considering I am 4'10" it is significant not to mention I feel bad about the way I look. I want to try intuitive eating but I feel like I am so lost. Up until a few years ago I never dieted. I lost all the weight after my last baby except a few pounds and decided to go on my first diet. I think it was low carb but I've done so many diets since then I really can't remember. I read the post today about the 17 day diet and have been researching it. I think I am borderline having an eating disorder. No purging or pills or anything like that but obsessing about my weight and doing all sorts of crazy diets such as a high fat low carb ketosis diet, and a super low calorie diet. Nothing has made me loose weight by the way. My thyroid is perfect. I am not even sure if I know anymore what is healthy. I used to be a vegetarian and then I started eating meat. I am so confused by all the different health advice. Ive done paleo. I don't know if whole grains are good or bad etc. How can I eat intuitively if I don't even know whats healthy?


I'm so sorry for your situation and am so happy you posted here. The entire concept of "intuitive eating" is that it is intuitive! Your body knows what to eat to maintain a healthy weight - I don't pretend to know what G-d wants of us, but I am pretty certain he didn't create our bodies to require strict calorie counting or dieting. I have so much more to say, but no time to say it right now. But I wanted to answer because if you think you are borderline eating disordered, do not diet or count calories. IT WILL ONLY MAKE THINGS WORSE!!! That I know for sure. Have a look at the books that were discussed on this forum, and read any of them. They will all enlighten you as to this method, and allow you to get in touch with your own body's needs for your personal health. I really want to help, please ask questions if you have any.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Dec 10 2014, 4:23 pm
Can someone post the link for the overfed head PDF? I have looked everywhere online and can't find it!
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