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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh, Fast Days, and other Days of Note
Shabbos meal
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After how many hours can you ask to leave the table?
Never  
 56%  [ 46 ]
Whenever you want  
 20%  [ 17 ]
After one hour  
 4%  [ 4 ]
After two hours  
 7%  [ 6 ]
After three hours  
 10%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 82



amother


 

Post Mon, Nov 25 2013, 11:53 pm
We were guests at my bil's house for shabbos lunch. After two hours of staring at cold cuts we asked to be excused from the meal. My bil was horrified.

Quote:
And let’s talk how rude you both were for making everyone bench early right in the middle of the Shabbos meal so you can take a walk when you wanted to and then expect to be served desert when you got back.


(As noted previously, we never even asked for dessert).

Anyway, after how many hours are you are allowed to ask to leave the table?
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 25 2013, 11:56 pm
I would never ask to leave unless there were extenuating circumstances: someone is ill, previously made plans that can't be canceled, child is very cranky and needs a nap, etc.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 12:00 am
What if it's hard for you to stare at food you can't eat (because the rest was put on the blech shabbos, and the food wasn't dry)?
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amother


 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 12:40 am
We have a relative that has long shabbos meals, like over 4 hours long.

I go very infrequently but when I am there I stay at the table the entire time (unless I need facilities.)

Trust me we are not eating all that time, most of the time is talking about things I'm not interested in, but still it is rude to leave in middle, so I sit and try my best to participate in the conversations.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 12:44 am
(same amother as above)

You basically told your BIL "you guys are boring, I have no interest in your conversation so Im going out to spend time with my DH now cuz I am not interested in you"
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 12:51 am
wow ~ this is a real spinoff ... [first of it's kind]

guessing you didn't feel validated in your other thread ... the amount of time doesn't really matter

most people do what they need to do - if they need to do something specific

not just because ...

then again - maybe you ought to bring everybody some booze so that you all think you're happy ... till the next thanksgiving - when everything will repeat itself [because you can't live with them & you can't live without them]
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agreer




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 12:54 am
my ILs have the looooooooooongest meals ever. There's not that much food, but it takes FOREVER to serve, and my MIL can talk for hours. She literally likes to sit in her chair and talk about EVERYTHING, from weather to politics to stuff she has already talked about, and she will not shut up until someone finally says that it's time to bentch.

when I was a newlywed, I didn't understand this. I sat next to my husband for a regular shabbos meal that could, literally, take 3 hours. however, I was sooooooo bored. I noticed that 2 of my bils (her sons) would leave the table and go to the couch (right behind the table, definitely in viewing distance of the table) and chill with a book while others were talking. I used to be jealous of them, but after a few years into the marriage and realizing this was a pattern, I've started to do the same.

however, I wouldn't leave the house to take a walk. I'd just sit on the couch (cuz it's more comfy) than the table, and her conversations ARE indeed incredibly boring, but definitely be there for bentching or if someone wanted to talk to me.

however, to play devil's advocate, what if it was a huge meal and the OP had digestive issues? Could she walk around the block? I don't see why not.

I don't think you "can't" do anything you don't have a good reason for. To 'stam' take a walk because you feel like walking IS rude. To take a break because the conversation is stressful, you need to push food down, you feel sick and need fresh air, etc. is okay, but definitely not first choice.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 12:55 am
amother wrote:
(same amother as above)

You basically told your BIL "you guys are boring, I have no interest in your conversation so Im going out to spend time with my DH now cuz I am not interested in you"


That was not my intention, but thanks for explaining it to me. I usually eat at home.

I don't think I want to eat out anymore.
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theoneandonly




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 2:11 am
We often host couples who ask to leave early. I never even thought to be insulted...
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 2:25 am
I think it's very rude any time you are at a meal for social purposes as opposed to just eating. Like someone said, it is basically saying the company is boring.

The only exception is if you need to tend to your children - like a baby needs nursing or you need to put a child(ren) to bed. If there is a specific reason that is because of a problem you have, make sure to blame it on yourself (I'm so sorry, I'm always really exhausted on Friday nights, and I need to bentch in case I fall asleep; I'm really sorry, my doctor said not to sit for more than an hour straight, so I just need to take a walk around the block for five minutes and I'll be right back.)
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freidasima




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 2:37 am
There are also, it seems, a lot of people who have no idea what the term "tirchat habriyos" is, meaning that they think it is normal to have a four hour shabbos meal on Friday nite while other people are exhausted and want to leave or go to sleep, or same on shabbos after a long shul. If one has guests, one doesn't have to turn what is usually a three hour meal into a twenty minute meal but there is a happy medium.

At our house our meals are short. The actual food portion is really not much, challah, soup on friday nite, main course and that's it. If someone wants dessert we offer fruit but we never eat any dessert so...and the rest is talking torah. The food is maybe twenty minutes to half an hour and the talk can be another half hour to an hour at most, and shabbos day the food is salads and then main dish and then fruit. When I read about four hour shabbos meals of people just chatting, well that's not something I would want, I would go out of my mind. An hour chatting, maybe but after that it turns to rechilus so if it isn't torah learning, I would say definitely make an excuse that you are feeling exhausted etc. and ask to bench. However if the food is still being served, those people who drag out the food part to three hours, if you really have had it, excuse yourself to bench on your own, make an excuse that you aren't feeling well, and then if you are invited, leave and if you are staying there for shabbos, go to bed. Not a walk around the block unless you need it for health purposes.
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mandksima




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 3:05 am
Is this post for real? Manners and not hurting people's feelings are very important, more so than a discomfort of having to look at food you don't want to eat or wish you were somewhere else. Better to not accept an invitation than bale out early and make it look like you don't want to be there.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 3:08 am
amother wrote:
What if it's hard for you to stare at food you can't eat (because the rest was put on the blech shabbos, and the food wasn't dry)?
Come on OP. How old are you? A toddler? Im sorry to sound so harsh, but really?
My parents used to have a guest who was a BT and had no regular shabbat place for lunch so he came to our house almost every single shabbat. He started to come wit a few friends who became regulars as well. This was a high school student (who grew up in our house). He started getting up after he would finish his chicken, with another friend. my parents found that to be extremely rude. It got to a point where my fathe spoke to the guest (he had become almost like family as he came every shabbat). My father rebuked him and he got the message loud and clear.
Who the heck leaves the table in the middle of the meal? Ive been a guest with my husband at meals where we noticed that every dish had an ingredient that my husband is allergic to. So, my poor husband sat, at the table, for however long the meal took, and dealt with it. He is a grown man. It is rude to leave the table before the meal is done.
And if there were cold cuts on the table, well, then there was something for you to eat.

ETA: I think that little kids can be excused from the table after they have eaten if they are not old enough to understand the conversations going on, but that is completely different than an adult.
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notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 3:25 am
Leaving is rude.
Hinting that u r tired ,I.e. Yawning etc. Isnt so bad.
Part of going out to eat is that the host is in charge of the meal length.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 3:30 am
amother wrote:
(same amother as above)

You basically told your BIL "you guys are boring, I have no interest in your conversation so Im going out to spend time with my DH now cuz I am not interested in you"

This.

Plus, in the other thread, you didn't just excuse yourself from the table; you actually left the house and left the clean-up to everyone else. Not cool.

I think a better approach would have been to wait until others have finished their main courses, and then stand up and volunteer, "Shall I help you clear the dishes?" That way the meal progresses, and you help your hosts instead of just running way.
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wispalover




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 3:35 am
freidasima wrote:

At our house our meals are short. The actual food portion is really not much, challah, soup on friday nite, main course and that's it. If someone wants dessert we offer fruit but we never eat any dessert so...and the rest is talking torah. The food is maybe twenty minutes to half an hour and the talk can be another half hour to an hour at most, and shabbos day the food is salads and then main dish and then fruit. When I read about four hour shabbos meals of people just chatting, well that's not something I would want, I would go out of my mind. An hour chatting, maybe but after that it turns to rechilus so if it isn't torah learning, I would say definitely make an excuse that you are feeling exhausted etc. and ask to bench. However if the food is still being served, those people who drag out the food part to three hours, if you really have had it, excuse yourself to bench on your own, make an excuse that you aren't feeling well, and then if you are invited, leave and if you are staying there for shabbos, go to bed. Not a walk around the block unless you need it for health purposes.


FS, I think the issue here isn't that she is saying that the meal was too long. Her problem was she couldn't stand seeing food infront of her that she could not eat.

amother wrote:
What if it's hard for you to stare at food you can't eat (because the rest was put on the blech shabbos, and the food wasn't dry)?


Amother, look. If it is really soooooo difficult for you to stare at some kind of food and it is causing you emotional and mental distress and anguish, to the extent that you feel you cannot go to family again, I am sure if you AYLOR he may well tell you to eat it.
There are many families where the grand/parents aren't religious, and many poskim say that you should invite these parents for meals for Kibbud Av etc even if you know there is a chance they may drive there and back. As long as you make it known the invitation is for Shabbat and they can stay over if need be, you should still invite them.

You are really sounding like an immature child at this point. If you are looking for reasons not to go- at least own it.

ETA: Do you think, maybe, there is a chance you like the attention that being "more religious" brings you? Or feeling like there is something that makes you different or better than those who will eat stuff heated on a blech? I am not being mean, just something to consider- maybe just don't make a big deal about it, ask them to pass the salad/ cold cuts/ whatever and say how great everything is with a big smile. Maybe that will make you feel better?
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Beyla




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 4:35 am
We often have guests who have to leave early/before the end of the meal.
I don't really care cause I understand life is full of events for everyone, and sometimes a full evening or afternoon is too much for someone.

But I think it's different when it comes to family, it's a time together, to enjoy, they prepared for you, I wouldn't leave the table this way.

For myself, I very often leave the table when I'm invited and when I'm the hostess, to take care of my kids/ nurse the baby. But I come back afterwards.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 5:02 am
amother wrote:
What if it's hard for you to stare at food you can't eat (because the rest was put on the blech shabbos, and the food wasn't dry)?


I missed this before. How not dry? Soup? Or something with a little bit of sauce? Because it is mainstream halacha (not a kula) that if the dry food is the ikkar, and it was all cooked before, you can have minimal sauce/ gravy etc. Check exactly with your LOR.

And to echo others here, if you still can't eat it, just grow up and sit there and don't eat.
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freidasima




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 6:52 am
got it, missed the business about the food.
That's a problem, some people can't stand to see things they can't eat. For others it is no big deal. I dont eat anything outside my house and if I am stuck and I know it is challah without fat inside that's all I can eat. So I often offer to bring the challahs and that's what I eat. People may look at me funny that I eat four pieces of challah, but that's my entire meal..c'est la vie.

If food is the problem OP bring your own food and eat either before or after the meal, or be excused to go to the bathroom, go to your room, eat a sandwitch and then come back to the table. It's not fun but it is doable.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Nov 26 2013, 8:11 am
I think you need to do "when in rome " if it matters to the host that you stay to be a part of it - you stay. We aren't little kids who ask to be excused - if someone invites you they mean to socialize with you - that is the whole purpose. Unless you need to be somewhere else it is highly insulting especially if they are sensitive and touchy. If you cant sit - go to the bathroom, offer to help with a child, get up and go help in the kitchen.

I have health issues and have sat through YEARS of meals to socialize and be a part of things with food that I wanted and couldn't eat. (Only reason I post as amother) At times it is VERY hard but if the situation matters I do it.

Some practical advice on that - bring food. Lots of food. Keep it in your room but don't leave crumbs as evidence. Eat some before the meal. Eat again after.

If you go somewhere you cant eat ESPECIALLY for kashrus reasons you don't INSULT the hosts by saying its not kosher enough for you if they think it is still kosher. source common sense and decency.
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