Cut Me Loose - By Leah Vincent. Anyone read it? Thoughts?

imasoftov

Wed, Jan 29 2014, 3:27 am

amother wrote:

Could we stop giving these individuals theyve craved for all their lives? I know many ppl, including myself that have had hellish childhoods & have painstakingly worked our a$$es off to grow up & get our lives together. I'm sick & tired of these whiny, hate filled, I-need-media-attention, memoirs.

I've always found that it's hard to not give something attention when criticizing it. But maybe that's just me.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jan 29 2014, 11:41 am

penguin wrote:

I will play devil's advocate here for a moment, although I personally think that there is a lot of untruth, based on seeing the interview and knowing some of the family. Also, IIRC, Rabbi Miller says in his letter that Leah had been treated by a psychiatrist, and I choose to believe him.

I also find it extremely hard to believe that Leah's mother actually threatened to have her locked up for wanting to go to college.

However, I can envision a scenario where Leah knows who Dr. Menkin is and what he does without ever having seen him professionally. This would be if Dr. Menkin is a member of the shul or community, and perhaps has even given a talk to the community as a psychiatrist.

Perhaps some Pittsburgher here can enlighten us.

Although my money is heavily on the side of truth being with the parents, I am just pointing out that some folks here have missed this possibility!

Wow, all these clues...looking forward to reading the book though I'm gradually growing to believe the butler did it. Seriously, it's only in one library in the system and "hold not allowed" for new books at this library. I'll keep trying.

amother

Wed, Jan 29 2014, 5:33 pm

penguin wrote:

Well, perhaps those who've read the book can clarify, for those who prefer not to have explicit material in the house (that they would not want their teens exposed to, if you follow me?)

How graphic and gory are the descriptions? Is this something you would mind your 10 or 15 year old child picking up?

It is definitely graphic and I would not want my child reading it.

She describes cutting herself multiple times, and she describes s-xual acts with multiple men.

I found the "cutting" triggering, I was thinking about cutting myself yesterday.

booboo24

Sat, Feb 01 2014, 7:20 pm

I just finished the book, my thoughts on it .....she writes wonderfully......she paints a vivd picture of her experiences, the difference, I felt, between her book and deborah feldmans book is, this was more about her relationship with her family/parents and not so much about religion. Religion did play a major role however I got the impression that if her parents were more accepting and aloud her to pursuit the things she was interested in, her outcome would have been immensely different. I felt she became negative bc she was "cut off" from her family. Whether the details in the book are true or not its obvious that each male relationship she had after living in nyc was unhealthy and she was looking for a father figure.
I didnt get the negativity of the frum religion from her as much as I had when I read deborah feldman.

It was a very fast paced book and I wish it was slightly more fluid meaning, she jumps from age to age quite quickly......she also glosses over her marriage to her husband in one short paragraph, the book felt rushed.

amother

Sat, Feb 01 2014, 8:35 pm

booboo24 wrote:

I am not sure why people compare Leah Vincent to Deborah Feldman--they come from very different worlds, different communities, even their family lives are so different. Also remember that Leah is a highly educated woman (she got a good education in her yeshivishe community which enabled her to get accepted to Brooklyn College like many other yeshivishe girls) whereas Deborah barely got a decent education in her community and could only get into a continuing ed program at Sarah Lawrence (instead of the real college) since she didnt have a real high school diploma or a GED. Leah had the opportunity to develop her writing skills, Deborah didnt. They are not comparable at all.

That being said, Leah just released a video of what freedom means to her -- I find it very interesting that she puts on a turban (typically worn in the chasidishe world) instead of a snood which is more common for yeshivishe women to wear. http://vimeo.com/85625372

amother

Sat, Feb 01 2014, 9:04 pm

penguin wrote:

I'm guessing that your question was rhetorical but I'll answer it anyway. It's not a book for children at all unless your children are already exposed to s-x and to the fact that some people struggle with religion and have lots of family/mental problems because of it.

amother

Sat, Feb 01 2014, 9:08 pm

marina wrote:

omg, no one cares whether Feldman was a footsteps member. Wow.

I got an email from someone who is in an otd group, he sent me something written by a vip of that particular group--

Quote:

"Feldman got trashed because she lied and/exaggerated in her book, and she didn't get a lot of support from us because she's a difficult person, and dumped her OTD friends as soon as her book came out".

I dont know if Feldman lied or not since I didnt live her life so I cant really speak for her. But it seems as though the OTD community was against her since she basically turned her back on them so they got angry and trashed her.

Maya

Sat, Feb 01 2014, 9:28 pm

amother wrote:

Please, let's not go there again.

Quote:

I dont know if Feldman lied or not since I didnt live her life so I cant really speak for her.

I lived a part of her life. She lied, and also badmouthed some very nice people who didn't deserve it. But like I said, let's not go there again.

amother

Sun, Feb 02 2014, 11:16 am

Maya wrote:

I meant that we have discussed Feldman's book here to death. Do a search for the threads if it interests you.

this isnt about Feldmans book. This is about comparing two individuals who are extremely different and come from very different backgrounds/communities. Vincent tries to make it seem as though she is from an insular chasidishe community when we all know that she grew up yeshvish, OOT in a mostly modern orthodox community and was therefore exposed to things that Feldman would never have been exposed to in her insular chasidishe community. They are not comparable at all.

753mom

Mon, Mar 03 2014, 4:11 pm

I just wanted to say that I've read through all the posts on the topic. While many of you have some great insights I do feel that the central point of the book is missed.

I believe that the central point of the book is not her troubles or harsh treatment by her parents but the effect that tsnias and modesty have on women's understanding of themselves. I've read the whole book and I'll honestly say that the questions she raises are important whether or not u believe the full extent of her story.

She believes, from what I've read, that focus on marriage and tsnias from a young age teaches girls that theresoal purpose in life into be submissive servants to the governing man in their lives. First fathers, then husbands. The strong focus on tsnias tells us that we are responsible for men's s-xual urges. That we are something shameful that must be covered up and hidden for fear that a man looses controle in which case it is our own fault for not dressing properly.

As a woman raised modern orthodox with three children ( 2 girls) I find these issues very important in the way I raise my own children. I realize that I do not practice as strictly as many of you do and I'm sorry if my views offend anyone but I felt that it was very important to look closely at what the inner message is that we are sending our daughters as well as sons when we tell boys that the have no controle of their s-xual nature and girls that they must be ashamed and hide theirs.

welcome home

Mon, Mar 03 2014, 9:12 pm

753mom wrote:

I didnt read the book so I cant comment on it but how do you suggest we fix the problem that you(/Leah) mention?

PinkFridge

Mon, Mar 03 2014, 9:18 pm

753mom wrote:

Welcome Home, I'm not 753Mom (and welcome, 753!) but here are some thoughts.
Tznius has to be taught differently. Try some Gila Manolson and Wendy Shalit. It's for our own self-image, so that the real us can come through and people can focus on our inner selves instead of being overly distracted by our shells. And of course, in dressing ourselves we have to have the proper attitude. If tznius is a mitzvah, then choosing clothes and accessories should be accompanied by simcha shel mitzvah. We should feel good about how we present our outer selves.

As for the boys, good question. As a chareidi-type, my boys are raised with an emphasis on shmiras einayim and not much exposure to girls besides their sisters. (Luckily, they have enough sisters to not be too cloistered Tongue Out

). I have to think about this.

BlueRose52

Tue, Mar 04 2014, 8:26 pm

753mom wrote:

She believes, from what I've read, that focus on marriage and tsnias from a young age teaches girls that theresoal purpose in life into be submissive servants to the governing man in their lives. First fathers, then husbands.

I don't buy this at all. Haven't read the book yet, just commenting on the idea. I have plenty of objections to the overemphasis of tznius and the unhealthy messages it puts into a persons mind. But I don't see that unhealthiness being that it cultivates a persona submissive to men. More that it cultivates an unhealthy relationship to one's own s-xuality and one's own body image (and towards s-x in general). And marriage? I'd agree that emphasizing marriage (and motherhood) also distorts some things, but I don't see how it encourages one to be submissive to their husband. Men are also encouraged to get married ASAP. Who are they being encouraged to be submissive to?

Sounds like a pet theory that doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

753mom wrote:

The strong focus on tsnias tells us that we are responsible for men's s-xual urges. That we are something shameful that must be covered up and hidden for fear that a man looses controle in which case it is our own fault for not dressing properly.

This I'd agree with mostly.