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Cut Me Loose - By Leah Vincent. Anyone read it? Thoughts?
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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 9:39 am
We always see most people if not all that leave the fold have severe underlying emotional issues that were not addressed. it's never too late to reach out encourage them in a loving way to work with their issues and bring them back. When you talk to the OTDs they're always blaming someone close to them parents teachers etc
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MrsDash




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 9:52 am
ronbonboo wrote:
As someone who went off the derech and has valid reasons, I also came back. And all my reasons can explain why, but the real reason is me. I lost faith in Gd so I ran. I am owning up to it.


Losing faith in God isn't a valid reason for going otd. Nope sorry, but I have the authority to make that decision, because my reasons for going otd are more valid than yours. Twisted Evil

But seriously, what makes your reasons more valid than anyone else's? And who are you to decide what is or isn't valid?
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 1:19 pm
ronbonboo wrote:
I read a blog about this book that says those who went off the derech will identify, and those who stayed on the path will find problems.
To me she lost her credibility when she cut herself, and attempted suicide and was diagnosed with mental illness and never saught out treatment. They said I think depression and borderline personality disorder and not PTSD. All of her s*xcapades aren't bc she grew up sheltererd. I have many sheltered friends who got married and have very fulfilling marriages. This book is a glorified p*rn*. One story after another how it's her parents fault that she is sleeping around.

This book is a chillul hashem!!!!! This book makes us out to be closed minded people. People who don't love their children. As of were a cult!!!! And keep in mind there's 3 sides to the story; her side, her families, and the truth. The book is poorly written, and could she be fabricating what really happened? Maybe they just didn't want to say to her your not frum so your not welcome we don't want them to see our black sheep, so they gave her an excuse, stds...

As someone who went off the derech and has valid reasons, I also came back. And all my reasons can explain why, but the real reason is me. I lost faith in Gd so I ran. I am owning up to it.
1. It's really a big problem when you blame OTD on mental health issues, because see, sometimes mental health issues are actually caused by your environment. I'm sure, if you look at some of our imamother threads, you can see how that might happen. Take a woman who is not allowed to drive and is forced to have many childen that she can't handle, whose husband is illiterate and can't provide for the family so they are on welfare as a lifestyle choice, who is taught that pleasure from cex is only for the husband, who is taught that her job is to be silent when he offends her - do you not see how that might lead to a mental breakdown? And then people will say, oh, she went OTD because she's actually crazy, not because there's anything wrong with our system.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 1:30 pm
And it is true, unfortunately, that some OTD people don't really know how to function in secular society. They don't really understand the difference between breaking shabbos and sleeping around - in part, because their education didn't clarify the difference to them. Not all OTD people by a long shot, but some of them.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 1:32 pm
amother wrote:
We always see most people if not all that leave the fold have severe underlying emotional issues that were not addressed. it's never too late to reach out encourage them in a loving way to work with their issues and bring them back. When you talk to the OTDs they're always blaming someone close to them parents teachers etc
I disagree with you that most OTD people have severe emotional issues- I think you have no idea what you are talking about. But even those that do- it's really crude to encourage people to help them so they can bring them back to frumkeit. No one is interested in being your pet kiruv project- take your kindness and pity somewhere else.
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 1:39 pm
I am not reading 12 pages.

Why do frum people need to explain away why someone goes OTD? Why can't they just accept that this lifestyle is not for everyone and some people can find a happy satisfied life outside of Orthodoxy?

Why the need to put down someone who goes OTD and say they have mental issues, an unresolved childhood, were molested, or whatever people say to soothe themselves that their religion is still the best?
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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 2:14 pm
I know people with large families that don't drive have beautiful happy fulfilling lives. There are people with one child or no kids a pet etc. that are miserable. Many people without degrees set up major flourishing businesses
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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 2:25 pm
This was a discussion on a different thread about the book, but that thread died and the discussion never progressed so I bring it here.

marina wrote:
And OTD people typically write and discuss about self growth and getting away from abusive people/societies/practices. They are not usually bashing for the sake of it and if that's what you think, you haven't educated yourself enough on this topic.


And I wrote,
Quote:
I read Leah Vincent's book and if that was her goal, then she failed miserably with this audience here.

I was annoyed that it seems so much of the book focused on her time in Brookyn College, and the relationships she had, the affair, yada yada yada. She did not take the time to develop the rest of the story, to how she got out of the deep hole it seems she was in. The end is so rushed! Details about how she managed her college schedule while working, and then how she acclimated to Harvard emotionally after all she'd been through, her mentors and lessons she learned along the way, etc... are missing if one wants to claim that this book is about self-growth.

I was disappointed and felt it was a missed opportunity. Unless the book really was about her youth before the growth.

Edited to say that in a literary sense, I lost trust in her as a narrator. A pity.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 4:48 pm
causemommysaid wrote:
I am not reading 12 pages.

Why do frum people need to explain away why someone goes OTD? Why can't they just accept that this lifestyle is not for everyone and some people can find a happy satisfied life outside of Orthodoxy?

Why the need to put down someone who goes OTD and say they have mental issues, an unresolved childhood, were molested, or whatever people say to soothe themselves that their religion is still the best?


I hear your point when discussing why people go OTD in general.
But this is a memoir. The author is making her life public and should expect some dissection.
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 4:59 pm
I agree with PinkFridge. When I read a memoir (and I’ve read a bunch) I feel comfortable talking about the person. I figure if you write a book, you expect to be discussed, and maybe even appreciate it. But it is important not to group all OTD people together.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 10:10 pm
amother wrote:
This was a discussion on a different thread about the book, but that thread died and the discussion never progressed so I bring it here.



I didn't like the book. For many reasons, some of which people have previously mentioned.

I do not, however, think she wrote this book to bash people. I think she wrote this to show self-growth, but unfortunately, through her writing we see how limited that self growth was. In other words, I agree with you critique of the book, but I don't see her as malicious in her writing.
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Hellothere




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 05 2016, 12:56 am
I recently read this book. My heart did ache for Leah. I want to add that she has a brother that is secular like her and he has said that everything she writes in her book is true. I feel that the yeshivish velt tends to side quickly with parents even without proof that the parents are right. Her father could've told his side of the story just like Leah told hers but he chose not to. So all we know is what Leah wrote in her book. I find it sad that her parents sent such a naive girl out of the house to be own her own in NY at such a young age. If you ask a secular teen if it's easy to be dropped in NY when you don't know anyone, they will probably tell you it's lonely and difficult. All to often, children are sent away from home bc they're rebellious. Her brother was also sent away from home at a young age. Today he is a lawyer, married with children and is 10000% secular. Maybe that's old style parenting. But I think you need to be a very tough person to do that to your own child so that's why I believe Leah that her parents were so cold hearted. I'm aware her father is a modern orthodox rabbi but he obviously brought up his kids yeshivish. Very sad story.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 05 2016, 8:51 pm
wrote:
I recently read this book. My heart did ache for Leah. I want to add that she has a brother that is secular like her and he has said that everything she writes in her book is true. I feel that the yeshivish velt tends to side quickly with parents even without proof that the parents are right. Her father could've told his side of the story just like Leah told hers but he chose not to. So all we know is what Leah wrote in her book. I find it sad that her parents sent such a naive girl out of the house to be own her own in NY at such a young age. If you ask a secular teen if it's easy to be dropped in NY when you don't know anyone, they will probably tell you it's lonely and difficult. All to often, children are sent away from home bc they're rebellious. Her brother was also sent away from home at a young age. Today he is a lawyer, married with children and is 10000% secular. Maybe that's old style parenting. But I think you need to be a very tough person to do that to your own child so that's why I believe Leah that her parents were so cold hearted. I'm aware her father is a modern orthodox rabbi but he obviously brought up his kids yeshivish. Very sad story.


Working backwards, I don't think her father would be characterized as MO.
And I found her line about her joyfully eating a bacon breakfast with her brother (her word, joyfully) sad and disconcerting.
I think there's enough blame to go around but I still don't know if I could believe everything she wrote. I've been meaning to start a new thread about memoir vs. biography based on a paragraph by Alison Pick in her memoir Between Gods. Very interesting book, btw, but a very thought-provoking and provocative piece on the concept of memoir. I'll try to dig it up next week.
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Fri, May 06 2016, 12:59 am
What satisfaction does one have writing every detail about her private life shunning her parents and her secular lifestyle - she's causing her family so much shame and pain. I guess when one stoops they couldn't care less about anyone else
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Hellothere




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 06 2016, 1:46 am
amother wrote:
What satisfaction does one have writing every detail about her private life shunning her parents and her secular lifestyle - she's causing her family so much shame and pain. I guess when one stoops they couldn't care less about anyone else


You guess?? If what he parents did to her is true, like her brother said, I guess they stooped low also and didn't care about her.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Fri, May 06 2016, 8:01 am
I am not here to argue the validity of her statements but bringing proof from a brother that is secular does not do much to prove anything. When dealing with a religious family which they feel animosity towards, the two would most likely stand together and support each other's statements. On a second note, Leah has openly spoken about her "loving " marriage despite all she's been through. Her husband, while not religious is a wonderful, kind person. They are in the process of a miserable divorce while she is already together with another man. He does not speak ill of her but by sharing lawyers, speaking to his pained parents and being in similar situations, I have learned much about Leah Vincent and her dishonesty and animosity toward all religious people. I would have never posted this had this thread not reappeared but it has acted as a trigger for me. I am also aware that in divorce things can get ugly ( trust me, I know!) but I have seen her "work" first hand.
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 06 2016, 8:20 am
amother wrote:
I am not here to argue the validity of her statements but bringing proof from a brother that is secular does not do much to prove anything. When dealing with a religious family which they feel animosity towards, the two would most likely stand together and support each other's statements. On a second note, Leah has openly spoken about her "loving " marriage despite all she's been through. Her husband, while not religious is a wonderful, kind person. They are in the process of a miserable divorce while she is already together with another man. He does not speak ill of her but by sharing lawyers, speaking to his pained parents and being in similar situations, I have learned much about Leah Vincent and her dishonesty and animosity toward all religious people. I would have never posted this had this thread not reappeared but it has acted as a trigger for me. I am also aware that in divorce things can get ugly ( trust me, I know!) but I have seen her "work" first hand.

Just because someone chose to be secular doesn't mean that they suddenly support all statements made by secular people in the same boat. Maybe her brother supports her statements because they're actually true?
Second, if your lawyer is sharing details of another client's divorce, I would get a new one stat, because they obviously don't respect privilege, and for all you know, they're blabbing about your own divorce case to others in the community.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Fri, May 06 2016, 8:44 am
WhatFor wrote:
Just because someone chose to be secular doesn't mean that they suddenly support all statements made by secular people in the same boat. Maybe her brother supports her statements because they're actually true?
Second, if your lawyer is sharing details of another client's divorce, I would get a new one stat, because they obviously don't respect privilege, and for all you know, they're blabbing about your own divorce case to others in the community.

I am blessed with a great lawyer. When doing research on lawyers, and ultimately choosing the same one, we have become acquainted. I do not know that all that she has written is false. I do know that she had made statements that have been proven to be untrue. She glossed beautifully about her marriage to "Zeke" while things were sour when that article was written. Wishing everyone happy marriages and a life of truth and meaning. Shabbat Shalom.
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justcallmeima




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 06 2016, 4:26 pm
amother wrote:
I am not here to argue the validity of her statements but bringing proof from a brother that is secular does not do much to prove anything. When dealing with a religious family which they feel animosity towards, the two would most likely stand together and support each other's statements. On a second note, Leah has openly spoken about her "loving " marriage despite all she's been through. Her husband, while not religious is a wonderful, kind person. They are in the process of a miserable divorce while she is already together with another man. He does not speak ill of her but by sharing lawyers, speaking to his pained parents and being in similar situations, I have learned much about Leah Vincent and her dishonesty and animosity toward all religious people. I would have never posted this had this thread not reappeared but it has acted as a trigger for me. I am also aware that in divorce things can get ugly ( trust me, I know!) but I have seen her "work" first hand.


So please explain. You are a frum person, but Leah Vincent is not. Because she eats bacon? Whom does it hurt if she eats bacon? But YOU, oh Holy Rebbetzin, can print absolute, pure, unadulterated LASHON HORAH on the internet for literally thousands of people to read. You should be EMBARRASSED to call yourself a frum person. How DARE you? I don't know about you, but my Bais Ya'akov education taught me that there's not really a whole lot worse than Lashon horah. It hurts the one who says it, the one (or in this case, thousands) who hears it and the one about whom it is spoken. You owe every single person who reads this an apology, you owe Leah an apology and as for your own soul, I'll leave you to sort that out on your own.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Fri, May 06 2016, 5:34 pm
justcallmeima wrote:
So please explain. You are a frum person, but Leah Vincent is not. Because she eats bacon? Whom does it hurt if she eats bacon? But YOU, oh Holy Rebbetzin, can print absolute, pure, unadulterated LASHON HORAH on the internet for literally thousands of people to read. You should be EMBARRASSED to call yourself a frum person. How DARE you? I don't know about you, but my Bais Ya'akov education taught me that there's not really a whole lot worse than Lashon horah. It hurts the one who says it, the one (or in this case, thousands) who hears it and the one about whom it is spoken. You owe every single person who reads this an apology, you owe Leah an apology and as for your own soul, I'll leave you to sort that out on your own.


Please learn hilchos lashon horah as it does not apply here.

In any event when someone puts their life story out and by doing that they are embarrassing and humiliating people there is a good chance that people will bad mouth the author in turn. I personally don't believe all sides in this case as all have an agenda.

I also hope you don't read any book that is a memoir, biography etc because they are full of Lashon Horah, stick with fiction.
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