Please explain: Satmar, "new illness", makeup

Talya

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 2:13 pm

chavamom wrote:

I suppose you could check for HSV, but only if you had a lesion. You can't really check for breast cancer at home either. And it's really not new. The whole article is very confusing.

PS - to the poster with a relative who is a medical professional: official guidelines are that breast exams should start at age 20.

It's recommended to do self breast exams monthly because you CAN detect abnormal lumps or changes that require further work up (even if you CAN'T make the official diagnosis at home) and not every lump is cancer but any change needs to be checked out.

I'm guessing from the theory that he was talking about STDs that he means that women wearing make up causes men to sin to extent of being chayav kares but again, especially with the way satmar women dress (even with some make up chas veshalom, gasp!) that's on the men for not being careful enough with shmiras einayim or just not practicing enough self control. But we should definitely blame it on the women who are the underdogs. Why not? Why take the blame on themselves when they can blame us?

vintagebknyc

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 2:15 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

I just want to point out that halachically one is not allowed to tell a woman she can't wear makeup even when she is in aveilus, because a woman should not deprived of the ability to feel good about the way she looks. I don't know how they reconcile this new ban with halacha.

this throws the entire concept of tznuis right out of the water

monseychick

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 2:18 pm

chavamom wrote:

But seriously, shouldn't it make some sense to the people listening? They are going to go to their doctors and say "please check me out for the new illness"?

I was wondering if the make-up thing was shabbos make-up, but being chayav kores?

Chava, Do yourself a favor worry, about the important things in life, why do I always lose one sock from my favorite pair in the laundry, why does my toast always fall on the buttered size.

Why don't they make OU pop-tarts..

Barbara

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 2:35 pm

Talya wrote:

Wha? The Satmar women are dressing so provocatively that that the men can't help themselves but to sleep with ho's or other women with STDs? So if they were just a bit more sedate, the men wouldn't .... Sorry, not buying a word of that.

monseychick

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 2:37 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Halacha... Whats that ??

MaBelleVie

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 2:39 pm

vintagebknyc wrote:

this throws the entire concept of tznuis right out of the water

Really? How so? A woman is allowed to feel good about the way she looks within the parameters of halacha. If there is no halacha to the contrary (and makeup has been around forever and was never considered, in a general sense, to be non-tznius), you can't ban it.

Talya

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 2:39 pm

Barbara wrote:

I hope you get I wasn't actually saying satmar women dress provocatively.

vintagebknyc

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 2:53 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

I was being facetious. I think we need a facetious emoticon

Barbara

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 2:58 pm

Talya wrote:

I hope you get I wasn't actually saying satmar women dress provocatively.

Precisely the opposite, in fact. AFAIK, they dress quite modestly. That's one of the things I don't buy. Of course, I also have my doubts that STDs are rampant, but what do I know?

Ruchel

Sat, Feb 08 2014, 1:54 pm

Make up: I am currently resisting posting photos of pre-war very chassidishe rebbetzins.

Make up on shabbes: if anything, once upon a time more rabbis seemed to allow chosen make up.

I notice the groups who complain of less tznius, are the tzniusest ones. And still, they're much tzniuser than even 30 years ago. sigh

My rav forbids explaining diseases unless one is a gadol hador or something- especially others' diseases.

ora_43

Sat, Feb 08 2014, 4:33 pm

I'm amazed at how much discussion this has inspired, since it was basically word soup to me.

I'm not sure what made the least sense to me when trying to read this - the jumping from one subject to the next? the random hebrew/yiddish words? the fact that half of the nouns were stolen and replaced with generic place fillers ("difficult situation," "new item," "new illness"... )? - but if I had to pick something, it's be this:

"The rebbe explained the doctors came back to him in recent weeks to explain the problem is not the fact that few have been checked, but the reality that women are being inflicted with terrible illness."

.... did the doctors originally think that the lack of examinations was, in and of itself, the problem, and the unnamed terrible illness was just a side effect? (And if so, are we sure these are medical doctors? and not, say, random guys in white coats?)

So confused

Raisin

Sat, Feb 08 2014, 5:05 pm

I think he is talking about ipod touches, ipads or smartphones. Kids can hide away with these and watch movies unbeknown to parents.

I think he is talking about people applying makeup on shabbos, not make up.

Illness must be breast cancer, what other illness can you check at home for?

rachel91

Sat, Feb 08 2014, 5:08 pm

Raisin wrote:

I understood exacty the same.

sunlight

Sat, Feb 08 2014, 11:04 pm

I like the comment that someone made on that page in yeshiva world that the satmar rebbe failed to suggest this could have been caused by machlokes...

The makeup that he's talking about may be eye makeup and eye shadow and such... and just in general wearing eye-catching flashy colors. The illness does sound (to me at least) like breast cancer.

And it's funny that he says EXACTLY where to put the tzedaka...

Oh well. This world is a funny place. He's not my rebbe but I'm sure there are others that hold of him...

Redbird

Sun, Feb 09 2014, 12:01 am

How would the satmar rebbe know what sin is bringing upon this mysterious illness down on us? Is he a navi? There are so aveiros that can be worked on... Why not Lashon hara, dishonesty, talking in shul, machlokes...

Quote:

might be the breach that girls and women started wearing makeup in a way that is contrary to Halacha.

Whats new in makeup that wasnt around a few years ago? Clinique chubby sticks? Blinc Mascara? I cant think of anything new thats more "contrary to halacha"