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Any Rabbi Abadi followers here?
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happybeingamom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 3:06 pm
I have to say that I would be seriously offended if my host served me food that he know I would not eat because of kashrus reasons.

Treat people the way you want to be treated, serving food that you know the person would not eat is wrong.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 3:13 pm
While my family does not follow his halachic rulings, my father does consider him to be a mentor of his. He learned in his kollel many years ago. My dad is very mainstream yeshivish/chassidish and is in chinuch. He is a brilliant posek and a real tzaddik but many find him not to pasken with a clear mesorah which is why they don't direct their shailos to him. I do find however, that many people who 'hold by Rabbi Abadi', only follow his kulos, not his chumros (which there are plenty) and don't know who he is or anything about him. They just here something like there is a charedi Rabbi who lets you eat not kosher gum, and they become 'followers'. There are ppl however, who have learnt by him or have a personal kesher. They can be called real followers. BTW before coming controversial, he was lakewood (BMG)'s main posek!!
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 3:42 pm
amother from 3:13 here. I realize I didn't properly address op's question on how to raise kids in a mainstream community. I don't think you will have a hard time getting in to schools (at least not harder than everyone else) and definately not get kicked out unless you make following the Rabbi your identity. As for snacks, I went to school with many of the Rabbi's followers, but most didn't follow the kashrus psakim. and even the ones who did, didn't feel the need to send their kids to school (or even have in the house) welsch's grape juice or such. Just because you follow his psakim, doesn't mean you CAN'T buy Kedem. I've been in his son's home many times as a child and older on shabbos and only saw regular grapejuice. Oh and I realized that my dad does follow him in certain areas as regards to concerts etc. Holds them to be totally assur. Ironically, our hs halacha teacher is a talmid of his and I noticed that he would quote him on non controversial topics such as "bugs are not kosher" Very Happy
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 4:14 pm
Op here- I think that's where a lot of our SB issues are coming from. I will concede that following rabbi Abadi might be okay and his kashrut rulings might be okay. And hey if I was stuck in the middle if nowhere with no kosher food around I might be happy to find a subway.... But DH wants to bring these products into our home. He wants me to buy the cheaper canned non heschered veggies and he enjoys some of the non heschered snacks. He believes that the kashrut industry is a mafia and it seems wants to fight a small war against it!

Sad it's one thing to be a talmid of him but another to cook food on your dishes that would make people not want to eat by you if you know. This is where our issues are coming in.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 6:27 pm
Quote:
Op here- I think that's where a lot of our SB issues are coming from.
Well, see my post above. This can head you to a lot more SB problems You have a difficult problem.

I have not heard from the Rov himself, so probably t's not fair to say what I think he holds even though it would be based on the story in which we were closely involved. But what I can tell you is that my person X could not come to any kind of shalom with his family without massive intervention from others, and it did appear that the Rov holds what he holds and is not very willing to bend, or suggest to a follower that it is good to bend in order to have shalom. Therefore, you may need to talk to some wise people who are sort of on the border, where they know how the Rov holds, have dealt with followers who were in conflict with non-follower family members, and can guide you.
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Volunteer




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 6:28 pm
Ruchel wrote:
Pessach is trickier because chametz isn't "batel" (not judging ! just thinking outloud)... but I do know other rabbis who consider in countries listing every ingredient there/more than 1/60, you can go by ingredients. Either for some items, or for all non meat items. Can he just be more old school?
edited to add: same for eating some items out, and I do remember a minority (?) opinion on grape juice.


I'm Sephardic and my rabbi generally follows Rabbi Abadi's opinions regarding kashrut.

Actually, there is a difference between Ashkenazim and sephardim with regards to bittul of chametz. Asheknazi poskim generally believe that while foods are usually batel b'shishim, chametz is an exception. If a food contained less than 1/60 of chametz, the chametz returns (chozer ve-ne'or) to life on Pesach and becomes assur regardless of its tiny quantity. However, most Sephardic poskim disagree. Sephardic poskim believe that if the food was made with less than 1/60 proportion of chametz BEFORE PESACH, the chametz was batel, and remains batel on Pesach, as if it had disappeared. If the food was made on Pesach, the bittul would not be effective and the food would be assur. The same logic would apply to foods cooked in chametz pots.

I believe that Rabbi Abadi abides by this normal Sephardic opinion and that's why he disregards the possibility of miniscule quantities of chametz in packaged foods made before Pesach.
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Volunteer




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 6:40 pm
Ruchel wrote:
School and friends with different levels is part of life. You can't choose who your neighbours/friends will be down to the very hechsher they eat or not, and not everyone will happen to have a school agreeing 100% with your practice around- and if they have, then it doesn't agree with the neighbour's practices 100%.

Telling or not is a bigger deal, though I read from various rabbis that you adapt to the host level (as long as it's kosher) even if you don't do that way. But the above? Part of life in a kehila.


This.

When I am a hostess, I try my best to respect others' kashrut observances, even if they differ from mine. For example, I won't make lots of kitniyot on pesach for ashkenazi guests, and tell them, "You can't eat this, this, this, or this." That just makes people uncomfortable. But when I'm a guest, I eat whatever the hostess serves (meat with a more lenient hecksher, for instance). This is exactly what my rabbi said: In your own home, buy what you want. But in someone else's home, be very strict about your host's kavod. If it's not pork, shut up and eat it.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 8:12 pm
amother wrote:
Do you tell guest about your kashrut practices before you invite (I know rabbi Abadi said no need to but I also know we have many friends/neighbors who would be upset if they found out)

Your kids have never been confused by school saying one thing and parents another (re concerts, kashrut etc?)



I am the amother you quoted.
It seems to me that your main concern is regarding hechsher. Unfortunately, I cannot help you since for me and my family it has been a none issue. We all live in neighborhoods where kosher food is readily available and thats where we do our shopping. I personally do all my shopping in a Chareidi supermarket. So you bet the hechsher is good enough for everyone Wink
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 8:37 pm
Volunteer wrote:
This.

When I am a hostess, I try my best to respect others' kashrut observances, even if they differ from mine. For example, I won't make lots of kitniyot on pesach for ashkenazi guests, and tell them, "You can't eat this, this, this, or this." That just makes people uncomfortable. But when I'm a guest, I eat whatever the hostess serves (meat with a more lenient hecksher, for instance). This is exactly what my rabbi said: In your own home, buy what you want. But in someone else's home, be very strict about your host's kavod. If it's not pork, shut up and eat it.


My understanding of this concept is that it's ok to eat food as a guest that you wouldn't eat in your own home IF that food is considered kosher according a mesorah that has a strong basis in the origins of halacha. If my family's mesorah is that yashan is required lehalacha, we will still eat non yashan at our cousin's, because there is a long standing valid halachic opinion that yashan is not required lehalacha, and that is their mesorah.

I don't know enough about Rav Abadis derech so I'm not commenting on that specifically. But there is no blanket heter to eat anything you want in someone else's home just because *they* consider it kosher. If there is no mesorah for what they're doing, it can be very problematic. For example, afaik there is no mesorah not to check lettuce for bugs. I have eaten in homes where they literally chop up unchecked romaine hearts without a thought and serve that as a salad. I pass on the salad without commenting, because I can't see any way to justify the fact that I will almost certainly be munching on little (not microscopic) buggies.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 8:44 pm
I'm not a R' Abadi follower, but I'll lend you my story.

An old friend of mine's FIL is a Rabbi with an interesting derech. Women shave their heads, but they'll eat no hechshered items, like they had non-kosher microwave pizza, non-kosher cheese, etc.

It gets people confused. After I saw this, I couldn't eat in her house. The really hard part is that I knew they had guests all the time, that would not hold by the things they held by - not checking for bugs etc. But if you saw them, you'd think with the long beards, payos and the tznius, etc. that it wouldn't be a problem at all. I asked a Rav what I should do. It caused a lot of bad feelings.

They since moved and when last I spoke to her she said they were going to go more main stream when they moved so they wouldn't have a hard time with everything.

I hope her pots and dishes are ok....

They are wonderful people but that stuff just got in the way.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 9:39 pm
amother wrote:
Quote:
Op here- I think that's where a lot of our SB issues are coming from.
Well, see my post above. This can head you to a lot more SB problems You have a difficult problem.

I have not heard from the Rov himself, so probably t's not fair to say what I think he holds even though it would be based on the story in which we were closely involved. But what I can tell you is that my person X could not come to any kind of shalom with his family without massive intervention from others, and it did appear that the Rov holds what he holds and is not very willing to bend, or suggest to a follower that it is good to bend in order to have shalom. Therefore, you may need to talk to some wise people who are sort of on the border, where they know how the Rov holds, have dealt with followers who were in conflict with non-follower family members, and can guide you.


I am pretty sure I know who you are talking about, although I cannot be certain. But in this situation the other family members were being quite unreasonable. We are not talking about a young, immature guy who made the decision to follow Rabbi Abadi, but a well established very frum and respected adult who made a very educated decision. The family members who have a prob. with him would have the same prob. if he decided to become chassidish or mizrachi or whatever else. They cannot accept that he is an adult and he and his family decided that this should be their derech.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 9:41 pm
amother wrote:
I'm not a R' Abadi follower, but I'll lend you my story.

An old friend of mine's FIL is a Rabbi with an interesting derech. Women shave their heads, but they'll eat no hechshered items, like they had non-kosher microwave pizza, non-kosher cheese, etc.

It gets people confused. After I saw this, I couldn't eat in her house. The really hard part is that I knew they had guests all the time, that would not hold by the things they held by - not checking for bugs etc. But if you saw them, you'd think with the long beards, payos and the tznius, etc. that it wouldn't be a problem at all. I asked a Rav what I should do. It caused a lot of bad feelings.

They since moved and when last I spoke to her she said they were going to go more main stream when they moved so they wouldn't have a hard time with everything.

I hope her pots and dishes are ok....

They are wonderful people but that stuff just got in the way.


Did these people live on Long Island?
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celesteno




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 10:01 pm
We do hold by R Abadi's list on Pesach, but we're Sephardi and most people I know follow his list for Pesach. Allthough frankly since we shop a frum stores we don't generally but anything that's not acceptable by all standards. It's generally with regard to kitniyot products. My husband will follow his rulings throughout the year, but not in the house. In the house we follow "mainstream Sephardi" kashrut (beit yosef, cholov yisrael, etc) throughout the year.
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SplitPea




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 10:46 pm
amother wrote:
I'm not a R' Abadi follower, but I'll lend you my story.

An old friend of mine's FIL is a Rabbi with an interesting derech. Women shave their heads, but they'll eat no hechshered items, like they had non-kosher microwave pizza, non-kosher cheese, etc.

It gets people confused. After I saw this, I couldn't eat in her house. The really hard part is that I knew they had guests all the time, that would not hold by the things they held by - not checking for bugs etc. But if you saw them, you'd think with the long beards, payos and the tznius, etc. that it wouldn't be a problem at all. I asked a Rav what I should do. It caused a lot of bad feelings.

They since moved and when last I spoke to her she said they were going to go more main stream when they moved so they wouldn't have a hard time with everything.

I hope her pots and dishes are ok....

They are wonderful people but that stuff just got in the way.


Be careful how many detials you put in a post. My inlaws say hi Smile I am tempted to correct a few things there but won't.

Ps he does not hold women "need" to shave. I only do it out of laziness of not wanting to deal with hair. And I think at the time you were coming by only MIL and me shaved.

Edit to add so people don't question my home: we do not follow That derech in kashrut. We follow R' Ovadia. Wink
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2014, 11:37 pm
we are ashkenazi. my husband's rebbi muvhak has a unique derech and mesorah similar to R' Abadi in some respects. especially with regard to kashrus. for example, we hold one can buy canned/frozen veggies without hechsher, certain soft cheeses, among other things. we say haetz on orange juice etc.

the rest of my family is "mainstream" or yeshivish. im very open about the way we do things. however, im very respectful of their level of observance too. Ill buy the food items with the hechsherim they follow if Im hosting them. (although I make the joke all the time to them "you might not eat at my house on pesach if you only knew....") but in all honesty, I do my best to accommodate for them. And they eat over all the time.

regarding people's concerns about pots/pans being "treifed up." it's not really an issue. nothing you are doing is mamesh treif. additionally, you can use kelim that are "ano ben yomo," that might help comfort people.

my kids are still little (toddlers) so I haven't encountered the difficulties you present regarding school and friends. however, I look forward to raising them with critical thinking, intellectual honesty, independence of mind, respect for others' choices. I think if approached properly, kids can rise to great spiritual heights from these types of challenges. after all, it's one of the biggest lessons we face everyday as Jews towards the outside world.

good luck to you, and may God grant you shalom bayis in all your choices.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2014, 2:42 am
MaBelleVie wrote:
My understanding of this concept is that it's ok to eat food as a guest that you wouldn't eat in your own home IF that food is considered kosher according a mesorah that has a strong basis in the origins of halacha. If my family's mesorah is that yashan is required lehalacha, we will still eat non yashan at our cousin's, because there is a long standing valid halachic opinion that yashan is not required lehalacha, and that is their mesorah.

I don't know enough about Rav Abadis derech so I'm not commenting on that specifically. But there is no blanket heter to eat anything you want in someone else's home just because *they* consider it kosher. If there is no mesorah for what they're doing, it can be very problematic. For example, afaik there is no mesorah not to check lettuce for bugs. I have eaten in homes where they literally chop up unchecked romaine hearts without a thought and serve that as a salad. I pass on the salad without commenting, because I can't see any way to justify the fact that I will almost certainly be munching on little (not microscopic) buggies.

I agree with MaBelleVie.

As a BT who used to affiliate (loosely) with the Conservative Movement, I know many people who think they keep kosher because they look at food labels and if they don't find anything objectionable, they'll eat it. They'll tell you, "sure, our house is kosher" when by almost all Orthodox standards (except maybe this Rav Abadi's) they are not. I don't know of any Orthodox person who would eat there without being very careful (cold things, not cut up, etc.). The BT boards are full of people dealing with similar situations.

Perhaps a Conservative host would not know there is any difference between her level of kashrut and an Orthodox person's kitchen, but you do. If an Orthodox person simply assumed that this person kept kosher according to Orthodox standards and ate freely there, he would be very upset to learn the truth later on. So I'd say that at the very least, you need to inform your guests. It's lifnei eiver otherwise.
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SacN




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2014, 6:37 am
I have a very close friend who's family follows R' Abadi's psakim and is Ashkenazi. I've been to her home many time and eaten there. I've been grocery shopping with her as well. She is very open about the fact that her family follows his psak halacha (in regards to most things, not just kashrus).

I asked my own shaila about eating in her home, both non hechshered things right out of the package (snacks, etc), and cooked food that may or may not have hashgacha (concerns about keilim, etc).

The (well known, mainstream) Rav I spoke to told me that if someone is has yiras shomayim and gets psak from a Rav, and asks shailos regarding their kashrus (if they make mistakes, or just to understand what they can/cant do), I can (and should feel comfortable) eat(ing) in their home. He said I can eat her cooked food, etc, even if I know that most likely, some ingredients are things I wouldn't buy in my house. I should not, however, eat unhechshered granola bars (for example) at her house if I wouldn't otherwise. If I know that a specific food has no hashgacha, I should avoid it.

So, that's what I've always done. I never asked about Pesach though.
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ally




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2014, 1:15 pm
Volunteer wrote:
I'm Sephardic and my rabbi generally follows Rabbi Abadi's opinions regarding kashrut.

Actually, there is a difference between Ashkenazim and sephardim with regards to bittul of chametz. Asheknazi poskim generally believe that while foods are usually batel b'shishim, chametz is an exception. If a food contained less than 1/60 of chametz, the chametz returns (chozer ve-ne'or) to life on Pesach and becomes assur regardless of its tiny quantity. However, most Sephardic poskim disagree. Sephardic poskim believe that if the food was made with less than 1/60 proportion of chametz BEFORE PESACH, the chametz was batel, and remains batel on Pesach, as if it had disappeared. If the food was made on Pesach, the bittul would not be effective and the food would be assur. The same logic would apply to foods cooked in chametz pots.

I believe that Rabbi Abadi abides by this normal Sephardic opinion and that's why he disregards the possibility of miniscule quantities of chametz in packaged foods made before Pesach.


It's not only sefardim who hold by bittul before pesach. In my very ashkenazi home, my parents tried as much as possible to buy all food before pesach and not on pesach for this reason. Chabad also keep this - this is why they will use granulated sugar before pesach but only boiled (where any chametz would be batel) on pesach.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2014, 2:15 pm
I like the fact that OP cares and has a conscience about others and she is thinking ahead. The fact that its causing sholom bais problems, is a problem. I wonder how R Abadi responds to that? Wishing you Hatzlacha.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2014, 2:31 pm
Sorry OP your thread got a little hijacked. There are a number of people on this board who do follow Rav Ababdi, and a large group of them are from one big family & know LOTS of people. Enough that I got a text to alert me that I may have been mentioned in this thread.

As for the comments about the dishes, moving away etc. - that wasn't about OP, it was about another family (as was the confusion someone thinking it was posted by a 'frum' woman who lives w/a non-Jewish man).

I'll post more later that's relevant to help you, but didn't want that to be the focus here.
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