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Asher Yatzar with Baby
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amother


 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 3:13 pm
I want to say asher yatzar for my baby when I change diapers. Do I just leave out the name of hashem?
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smss




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 3:14 pm
interesting idea. sounds a little ironic to me because really you're not supposed to make a bracha with dirty diapers around, but I guess if you're leaving out Hashem's name anyway...
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myself




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 3:19 pm
Is there a reason why you want to do it? Has your baby struggled in this aspect? It sounds nice, I've just never heard of it being done.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 3:21 pm
smss wrote:
interesting idea. sounds a little ironic to me because really you're not supposed to make a bracha with dirty diapers around, but I guess if you're leaving out Hashem's name anyway...


I figured I would would take the baby to the bathroom while I wash my minds afterward, step out of the bathroom and say it for the baby.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 3:23 pm
Wash my hands (not my minds). Don't know how I managed to misstype that.

To the other poster, no, my baby has not struggled. I was just thinking about what age to start doing it and I thought why not now? The baby will get used to hearing it each time and maybe it will be comforting also.
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myself




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 3:40 pm
amother wrote:
Wash my hands (not my minds). Don't know how I managed to misstype that.

To the other poster, no, my baby has not struggled. I was just thinking about what age to start doing it and I thought why not now? The baby will get used to hearing it each time and maybe it will be comforting also.


Considering that your baby is still quite little perhaps say just the final brocha. The whole brocha is quite long for someone so young.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 4:07 pm
Its funny that you're saying this idea, cuz a lot of times after I change my baby's diaper and wash my hands I catch myself about to say Asher Yatzar (to myself) out of habit....
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doctorima




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 4:21 pm
It's a novel idea, but I don't think we're supposed to go coming up with new brachos to make that we're not obligated in. Are you also going to make shehakol (w/o Hashem's name) every time he/she nurses, and other brachos when old enough to eat? And hamapil before going to sleep at night? Why only asher yatzar? There's a reason that kids are exempt from brachos when they're not of chinuch age, and while it's nice for them to be around when we're doing mitzvos so they'll get exposed to it, I've never heard of making brachos on their behalf.
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baba




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 4:47 pm
amother wrote:
Its funny that you're saying this idea, cuz a lot of times after I change my baby's diaper and wash my hands I catch myself about to say Asher Yatzar (to myself) out of habit....

I've totally done that!
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Beyla




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 5:14 pm
I totally say brachos for my baby but not asher yatzar yet, think I will begin to do it when potty training.
For now I say a little tefila with him in the morning, psukim, the brachos on food and shema at night. I think it's good for my kids and they enjoy the songs!
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amother


 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 5:25 pm
rosarosa wrote:
I totally say brachos for my baby but not asher yatzar yet, think I will begin to do it when potty training.
For now I say a little tefila with him in the morning, psukim, the brachos on food and shema at night. I think it's good for my kids and they enjoy the songs!


OP here. What morning tefilos do you say with him? Do you also take a bite of his food? My mind blanked with all I learned about this stuff. Maybe it wasn't covered well. I was taught to do negel vasser with them their first day forward. I remember that one because I thought it was really interesting.
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 5:31 pm
When you make brachos for chinuch, starting at age 2-5, you do say hashem's name.

As a baby is not chinuch age I don't think you should say hashems name.

I just sing modeh ani and shema to babies.
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Beyla




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 5:32 pm
amother wrote:
OP here. What morning tefilos do you say with him? Do you also take a bite of his food? My mind blanked with all I learned about this stuff. Maybe it wasn't covered well. I was taught to do negel vasser with them their first day forward. I remember that one because I thought it was really interesting.

We wash negel vasser, then tefila : we say modeh ani, netilas yadaim, Torah tziva and then tzedaka and shema.
I don't always eat of his food.
I learnt its not a problem cause its chinuch but no sources though.
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myself




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 5:36 pm
gp2.0 wrote:
When you make brachos for chinuch, starting at age 2-5, you do say hashem's name.

As a baby is not chinuch age I don't think you should say hashems name.

I just sing modeh ani and shema to babies.


Me too. And definitely with Hashem's name, I wouldn't want them saying 'Hashem' in place of the real name. Wink
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tryinghard




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 6:02 pm
We felt that it was better to teach dd what we are saying rather than have her spout off a whole stream of meaningless-to-her words. So when she comes out of the bathroom she says (or shouts at the top of her lungs) "thank you HaShem for making me healthy!" - why not do this with your baby instead?
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rosenbal




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2014, 6:05 pm
myself wrote:
Me too. And definitely with Hashem's name, I wouldn't want them saying 'Hashem' in place of the real name. Wink


She ma is a pasuk not a bracha. You can say hashems name when saying a complete pasuk. Saying hashems name if your child is not of chinuch age is a bracha levatala.

OP and anyone else, please ask your LOR before saying brachos with babies or toddlers with hashems name. If the mitzvah of chinuch didn't yet start, it's prohibited.

I don't know if taking a bite of his food solves this of not unless you were also planning to eat that food. There's also a prohibition of bracha she'aina tzericha. Not sure if making yourself take a bite of your baby's of toddlers food just so you can say a bracha with them counts as a valid bracha or unnecessary.
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myself




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2014, 7:36 am
rosenbal wrote:
She ma is a pasuk not a bracha. You can say hashems name when saying a complete pasuk. Saying hashems name if your child is not of chinuch age is a bracha levatala.


That's not a problem for me as I only start once they're chinuch age anyway.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2014, 7:47 am
Here's what I learned, but please everyone ask your own LOR.

There is no problem to say pesukim (e.g. shema, reishis chochma, torah tziva) or tefillos without Hashem's name (e.g. modeh ani) at any time and/or to a baby of any age. In fact, it is good to say shema and torah tziva so that even a tiny baby hears. Your hands should be clean (physically and netillas yadaim if you've done something requiring it). There also shouldn't be dirty diapers (on or off baby, unless on if they're solely nursing) or open wet diapers around.

The age for chinuch for saying brochos is when a child starts to speak, even if they can't say it all.

You should never be saying brochos with made up words to your child, and that includes saying "Hashem" instead of the actual name. This is very bad chinuch because that's what they learn to say. Also do not say 'baruch ata ado-'(mother goes quiet because she wants the child to complete the word and she won't have to say the whole word). This is also very bad chinuch. Chinuch is to teach the child to say the entire brocho correctly. So when they are very little don't say a bracha you don't need to say at all, and when they start to speak (consult your own rav for exactly when this stage is) say the brocho properly.

A brocho she'eina tzricha means something like saying an haadama on a tomato just before you wash your hands for hamotzi and wouldn't have had to make a bracha during the meal. I can't see what is wrong with an adult making a brocho if they then eat the food, even if they weren't otherwise planning to.

Personally, I think asher yatzar is a very long brocho and it should wait a bit. I think my children learned it in gan as part of the morning tefilla when they were maybe 4-5. I would imagine the gil chinuch for a longer brocho is later.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2014, 9:08 am
I'm all for teaching babies from the time they are borne ... however, saying the brochos for them is not a form of teaching ... say it for yourself aloud ... in turn when they are ready to talk & say brochos it will already be part of their ingrained chinuch

singing modeh ani & shema are the exception which in my opinion should always be said

washing them negel vasser as well from day #1 is important

psa to anyone teaching brochos to anybody ... don't say the brocha for them ... have them repeat it word for word and correct any mistakes - not by mumbling every 3rd word - otherwise they will never get the actual word & will skip parts of the brocha ~ just sayin' Study
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rosenbal




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2014, 10:10 am
Shalhevet, some Rabbanim hold that chinuch for brachos only apply once the child has some seichil about what they're doing. Otherwise you're teaching then to prattle mindlessly. I'm pretty sure my husband's posek thinks ideally to wait till closer to age 4 so they have some idea that they're saying thank you to hashem.

He knows it's a lost cause since morahs start earlier and older siblings make little siblings sat brachos etc, but I don't believe he likes it. My youngest started talking at age 12 months (a lot of words) and sentences shortly afterwards. The kid didn't have teeth yet lol! I doubt he would have had any sense about what he was saying. Now he's an intelligent 3 year old and gets a bit about saying thank you to Hashem. On his level.

I know this isn't what's commonly done. I think the best chinuch is to always say your own brachos out loud (I'm working on it...)and through osmosis our kids pick up the habit and the fluency. I like someone's idea about saying something in English after the diaper change about thanking Hashem about their body working. Then just say your own Asher Yatzar loudly after you go.
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