Need your help-part vent, part need to pick your brains

amother

Tue, Mar 11 2014, 10:54 pm

My DSIL's sister got engaged! Everyone is very excited and I understand he's a very special boy. But...my machatunim live in FL and his family is from Brooklyn. While the kallah would prefer to have the wedding in FL, the chosson's family is insisting that the wedding can only be made in Brooklyn as their friends refuse to drive anywhere else to attend and that includes Monsey.

There are a couple of issues here. First, can I ask all of you who live in said borough why it is not possible for you to drive to, say Monsey, to attend a wedding, while the kallah's family has to travel 1000 miles or more to attend but will do so at great expense to them? For those of us who live out of town but have made our children's weddings in Brooklyn, we've gone out of our way to be conscious of your needs, why is it not possible for you to be conscious of the efforts we all have to put out in order to be at these affairs to support our friends and relatives and compromise a little? I'm not saying all of you are like this, but my experience and that of a good many of my friends have been as such. We are the ones who have to take off 3 days of work. We are the ones who have to travel 400+ miles. We are the ones who have to spend Shabbos in hotels. We are the ones who drive back and forth in 1 day. But we do it. We might kvetch about it to each other, but we do it. Why can't you drive 1 hr? Can anyone explain this phenomenon to those of us who do live OOT? We really just want to be able to understand. Maybe we wouldn't feel so negatively if we could understand your thought processes.

OK. So now that is said and done, the family is looking for hotel accommodations for the weekend of the wedding (June 22) in Brooklyn. We're talking about 15 families including many small children, near a shul so the men can go daven, with decent facilities that would allow them to have catered food brought in and a room in which they can gather, that won't cost 6 arms and 12 legs. Any and all suggestions are welcome.

chocolate chips

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 12:42 am

It is a NYCity/Brooklyn attitude. Gets in the way of a lot of things, mainly their life! Yes it is rude and irritates the few who are not like this. (Including me Wink

although I am not a NYer in any way!).

It is also a huge chutzpah of the chassans family to demand this, the chassans side usually travel and that is a given unless there is an unusual circumstance in which case the kallahs family decide where to make the wedding.
It brings up a lot of memories of my sisters wedding where the other side made demands from here to the heavens...and then when I had to miss every single one of her sheva brachos, did not stop asking why I had to leave - denial much?!

Can the kallahs side not put their foot down?

Accommodation for so many people in Flatbush/Boro Park is probably going to be expensive. Is it an option for them to be split up? Like the parents kallah and unmarried siblings in one mechutanim house (I know they have these in UK perhaps here they have more basement style) and then the married siblings elsewhere? There are many hachnasas archim apartments around, my mil has one if you want pm me for more info.

amother

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 12:53 am

Regarding hosting many people, I don't know how many you're talking about but for my Shabbos sheva brachos we needed a lot of people accommodated in one place because several siblings had pre-walking babies and other relatives were unable to walk far for health reasons. We found an assisted living facility in Boro Park that also rents rooms as a hotel, but much much less expensive than a hotel. I think we had them cater the meals too. Everything was very nice. I don't remember the name of the place, but it was off 19th avenue in the 40's I think. And if they don't have enough space, maybe there are other similar places where you could get rooms.

SingALong

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 3:52 am

I think the place off 19th ave is called the regency, an assisted living/nursing home something like that. They have a room downstairs for the simcha.

I don't know why monsey is easier for you, as in bklyn you don't need a car and in monsey things are not as accessible walking.

I have heard of the boys lately demanding to get married in their hometown. Sometimes it's the terms of the shidduch, like he won't meet the girl unless that issue is cleared up. Not fair I know, but if enough girls are willing to....

Op is the Kallah currently working/school in bklyn, so she doesn't mind having the wedding there? Maybe the chassan family can help put up people from kallahs family. Some of those empty nesters may have space...

mommy3b2c

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 8:32 am

amother wrote:

OP here. I understand young parents with baby sitting issues. What I don't understand are the parents' friends. We're talking big time empty nesters. How is it that I can take a train from where I live 8hrs away because I don't have a car, find a place to stay overnight, take a subway and then walk to the hall and then go back to wherever I'm staying but they can't get in their cars and drive a little bit? They're driving to the hall from wherever they live in Brooklyn. That's what I don't get.

With friends like these, who needs enemies?

morah

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 8:39 am

Born and bred New Yorker here (though never lived in Brooklyn) and I've never heard of such a thing. Most people I know made the wedding where the kallah was from unless a) she's been living/studying/working in NY for awhile and preferred to have it here or b) she was from a very remote OOT area and it simply made more sense for 10 people to travel to NY than for 100 people to travel to Yehupitzville.

Also, I go to NY weddings all over the tristate area- Monsey, New Jersey, Westchester, Long Island, even occasionally Connecticut. Maybe this is specifically a Brooklyn thing, but it is definitely not a New York thing.

amother

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 12:03 pm

Hi. OP here. First of all, I want to thank you all for your support and your suggestions.

The kallah is finishing school in NY and most of her friends are there. NY metro area is relatively central and easy for those who are traveling from FL, Chicago and other Midwest places to fly to. That's why it wasn't such a big deal for them to be making the wedding in NY. We did it with our children together even though none of us were from NY. She is also the youngest in the family and all her sibs are married with children--including a newborn at the time of the wedding. The immediate extended family is very very close, most of the kids are married with families and for a variety of reasons it is not feasible for them to be hosted in other people's homes for Shabbos. It is very important for the family to all be together for that particular Shabbos.

To answer the "why Monsey" question: We made a wedding together there a number of years ago and know there are hotel facilities in walking distance of a shul that was willing to accommodate the family's needs and was helpful in helping them attain their goal. Additionally, this hotel now has the facilities to make frum weddings as well. It's a known entity. My machatunista has been on the phone for 2 days trying to find hotel facilities for the family that are financially feasible as well as logistically feasible and the only thing she has come up with is a hotel in Tarrytown, which, btw, is owned by frum people and a beautiful facility for frum weddings (I've been to several there) as well as having the facilities the family would need. While it's a wonderful place for Shabbos, they would also be faced with hiring a bus to transport the family to the wedding facility in Brooklyn. Where's the equity in this?

I'm glad to know you all aren't "those kinds of people". Unfortunately, all my friends whose children have married Brooklyn kids (me included) have come up against brick walls when dealing with the future machatunim about making weddings outside of Brooklyn. I still have 1 unmarried child. But we have learned our lesson and will not hesitate to stick up for ourselves if this should happen again to us. We just want our kids to be happy and we don't want to make waves with people we don't know. It just leaves us as patsies. Thanks for your ears and your advice.

Fox

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 12:20 pm

I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but I am told that it has become significantly cheaper to make chassunahs in Brooklyn/Monsey/Lakewood than virtually anyplace OOT.

Why? According to what I've been told (which means I don't personally vouch for its accuracy), the underlying reason is the implementation of takonos by various Chassidishe Rebbes. Wedding halls that wanted business from a given Chassidus had to scale back costs in observance of the takonos -- or Chassidim from that group wouldn't even consider the venue.

So how did this come to affect Lakewood or caterers/halls without a significant Chassidish clientele?

Simple economics. Let's say you live in Lakewood and discover that you can save 50 percent by making the chassunah in Brooklyn. Since it's a 90-minute drive, more or less, it's a pretty good trade-off! In order to remain competitive, Lakewood venues had to meet the prices of the Brooklyn halls.

Of course, there are still plenty of places that cater to a less cost-conscious crowd or offer other amenities to justify higher pricing, but I'm told that even some of them are under more pressure than they might have been a decade or two ago.

Weirdly, more and more people from Chicago are making chassunahs in Brooklyn and Lakewood -- even when no one in the wedding party lives there. One of DH's friends made a chassunah in Lakewood for his DD. He estimated that he could fly all the members of his immediate family as well as a few cousins to NJ -- and still come out saving almost 40 percent. The chosson was from Monsey, so it wasn't completely crazy, but a surprising number of people, it seems, are fleeing to Brooklyn/Lakewood to get married even if they have no real connections there.

There are even Lakewood wedding planners who market to yeshivish families without any relatives in Lakewood -- kind of like tropical resorts offering destination weddings. Apparently they handle all the details, and you simply show up with your retinue. Personally, I'd be more enthused about a "destination wedding" involving St. Thomas or St. Croix as opposed to Lakewood, NJ, but I suppose beggars can't be choosers.

On the face of it, this wouldn't seem to be relevant to the OP's situation, but perhaps the chosson's family wants to save money without being seen to care about that sort of thing. Or, of course, they could just be provincial. Smile

PinkFridge

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 1:52 pm

Lots of hugs. Lots of people are making simchos in NY/NJ because
- the choson insists (and may be giving in on other things) (let's not get started on the whole "giving in" and on what thing)
- the kallah would prefer as her friends are there
- yes, it is much cheaper.

We were lucky that our east coast chasunas did NOT entail putting up lots of out of towners. Most people could drive home that night or go to relatives. However, coming from out of town where it's not uncommon for a local simcha to be like a mini convention, I'll tell you how these simchos work: it takes a village. Lots of people gladly offer accommodations, transportation to and from airports, there are committees for the local sheva brachos, and more. I don't believe that everyone "in town" is clueless, some people don't have the connections to have people who can host, etc. but I would hope that the local family will be helpful in some way. I don't know how to get that to happen but I hope it does, and that everyone enjoy the simcha and that the choson and kallah build a bayis neeman b'Yisrael, full of joy and meaning. Which is enough for all of us to take a moment right now, reflect and celebrate Tongue Out

amother

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 2:00 pm

OP here. It really is a whole lot cheaper to do it in NY/Lakewood/Monsey than to do it OOT. Where I live there are no caterers and only 1 non-Orthodox shul where you can have a wedding for more than 150 people. Traveling for friends and family entails a lot of driving, rental of buses to shlep people in from NY or big time air fares. It means bringing in bands and caterers. It's prohibitive. That's why we'll do our weddings in NY. But we all prefer Monsey because it is only a 5 hr. drive rather than a 7-8 hr. drive and there are hotels reasonably accessible to the venues which are not far off the Thruway, hence they are relatively easy to get to. And for all you from Brooklyn and Queens, you only have to drive 45 min to an hour. We don't mind doing it because it really is cheaper. What we do mind is being given ultimatums or made to feel as though our concerns are of no consequence.

Sorry for the rant. It's just that we personally experienced some of this when we made one of our weddings and so many of my friends have also recently experienced the same things. What happened to the spirit of compromise and working together to make the best experience for our children?

Thanks for listening and for all your suggestions.

Sanguine

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 2:52 pm

OK - you explained a few things.

NY because that's what the Kallah wants, not cause the boy's family is unreasonable.

The Kallah's family wants Monsey because of the sleeping arrangements for their family

I know that the Kallah's family is travelling from Florida but I'm from Brooklyn (not anymore) and when I heard Monsey before I heard the reason I thought - What are they nuts? It's close to a 2 hour Drive!!

I got married in Brooklyn - my family loved me for picking it. Me and DH-to-be were looking at a different place and met the caterer in Brooklyn at the EL Carib (which we never heard of) behind Kings Plaza (I think it later became the Chai Club) We loved the place.We took a different caterer. I'm from Flatbush - our trip was 20 minutes. DH is from Riverdale so his family and their friends traveled 1 1/2 hours. We were young. It never occurred to us to think of the distance for the "elderly" guests

Now that I'm in the older age range and get invited to my friend's children's wedding. We really hate when weddings are far. "Kids" don't need so much sleep. "Grownups" can't get home after 12 PM and still function at work the next day. I know you're not a "kid" but if you have a sister in law getting married, you're probably in your 20's. People in their 50's (can't believe I said that) really have a problem staying out so late. Where I live (Israel), there are wedding halls all over, some nice and some nicer. People try to make the weddings between where the Chatan and Kallah live but people go even if if it's inconvenient cause one of them lives so far - "Can't help it that he's from the Golan". But if they both come from the same area (or one of their's parents come from America) and they pick a hall 2 hours away cause the Kallah "Always loved the way there's a waterfall near the chupah". That's called having no consideration for their guests, and their parents (who are in their 50's) should have explained that to them.

Now having said all that... I don't think the boy's family is selfish inconsiderate people to want the wedding in Brooklyn. It's not in Florida anyway so why not Brooklyn? The problem is the Kallah's family needs a place to stay and they know this place in Monsey and since NY is so small there's probably no other place in the whole NY Wink

. Brooklyn really might not have something but she can get marries in any of the 5 boroughs or the Island and any of those aren't such an inconvenience to the Brooklyn guests. Mayybe you can find a place to stay in one of those areas.

Start a new thread since this one starts on a different issue and most people won't follow this long. Title it Looking for a place for 30 people to stay in NY (or however you want to word it - you got the idea - you want the NY people to look at your thread - Maybe just write NEW YORK - NEW YORK - all New Yorkers will click and see what's in the thread). Maybe you'll get suggestions here.

Monsey is very far from Brooklyn and it's really not nice to inconvenience guests like that unless there's really no choice.