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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Purim
PSA Don't let your kids sit while pregnant ladies can't.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 8:13 am
I went to shul last night and children were taking up most of the seats on the ladies side. Several large families squeezed out the ladies side. Mothers please be considerate of older, pregnant and heavy women. Tell your kids to get up off their seats or to double up.

To my right 3 women standing were heavily pregnant who ended up holding their children at various times. There was one heavy older lady who could hardly stand. There were older woman without seats while 3 rows were taken up by one family with 8 kids. The mother herself was pregnant. Another large family took up a couple of rows. There are only 8 tables on the ladies side.

I am appalled at the lack of etiquette. You are selfish when you sit your children nicely and that forces older, pregnant and heavy women to stand.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 8:57 am
Just curious--we're you sitting? Lead by example and if need be give up your own seat if others won't. Don't wait for someone else to do the same right thing you don't want to do because it will be less comfortable.
P.S coming from someone morbidly obese--weight alone doesn't make me need the seat any more than anyone else. I've stood before without a problem. This pregnancy is killing me though so if you wanna give me your seat....
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chavs




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 9:00 am
Honestly I'd prefer to stand a lot of the time if my kids sit (pregnant or not), as they are much more quiet when sitting on actual chairs. My son has a much harder time being still if standing and my dd would too I think. That's not to say that if an elderly person, or a person otherwise in need of sitting, needed a seat I wouldnt encourage my children to give the their seat though. They wouldnt be as still though when standing as I said.
Perhaps taking the kids to children's megillos if an option is the best idea or taking turns with one's dh.
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SplitPea




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 9:02 am
amother wrote:
I went to shul last night and children were taking up most of the seats on the ladies side. Several large families squeezed out the ladies side. Mothers please be considerate of older, pregnant and heavy women. Tell your kids to get up off their seats or to double up.

To my right 3 women standing were heavily pregnant who ended up holding their children at various times. There was one heavy older lady who could hardly stand. There were older woman without seats while 3 rows were taken up by one family with 8 kids. The mother herself was pregnant. Another large family took up a couple of rows. There are only 8 tables on the ladies side.

I am appalled at the lack of etiquette. You are selfish when you sit your children nicely and that forces older, pregnant and heavy women to stand.


Yes it's considered common to do but think of it this way. Family with 8
Kids knows if she does not get her kids a seat they will be running around talking and messing up megilla for everyone. So she gets to the reading VERY early so that she can make sure everyone gets seats. They get settles and are happy. Then just before megilla starts people start pouring in. If she makes her kids get up they will not sit as nicely and disturbed others..... She would probably miss words keeping them quiet and not be yotze.

Honestly I think it's crazy that women's sections have such few seats. You don't see men needing to stand because there are not enligh seats
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SplitPea




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 9:05 am
I also need to sit MUCH more when I am 8-9 weeks along and still look very healthy and find than when I am 6-7 months along. So that seemingly healthy woman not getting up for the very pregnant woman might also have her reasons Smile
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momX4




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 9:09 am
We went 15 min early to shul, and it was hard. DH has an injury and needed a seat. My toddler needed to sit on her own chair to behave. If I didn't have a seat for my toddler I would have left at the first haman, it freaked her out. She laid down on the chair and relaxed.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 9:33 am
am I the only one who alternates with DH? I know I'm not, because in my community all the husbands go to hashkama so wives can go to regular laining. No little kids come.

Unless you live in a small community with one laining morning and evening, why can't you switch off? Even when they have seats, I find it hard to believe that kids will be completely silent and not disturb....
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SplitPea




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 9:34 am
amother wrote:
am I the only one who alternates with DH? I know I'm not, because in my community all the husbands go to hashkama so wives can go to regular laining. No little kids come.

Unless you live in a small community with one laining morning and evening, why can't you switch off? Even when they have seats, I find it hard to believe that kids will be completely silent and not disturb....


Totally agree with this I was just being devils advocate before. I don't think kids belong in megilla readings at all. Even quietly eating a snack is enough to bother someone.
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yo'ma




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 9:42 am
Come to our shul, lots of seats.
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Mama Bear




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 10:31 am
I go to a neighbor whose husband reads for her and her nine kids. I can bring my baby along and no one is bothered.
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smiledr




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 11:04 am
A few years ago I was 8.5 months pregnant and literally sat on the floor in the back if the shul bec kids didn't give me their seat during Megillah...
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amother


 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 11:32 am
If your kids are only quiet and good when sitting, and you don't want to disturb the megillah, but there are adults standing throughout, is it better to take your kids out (who don't have a chiyuv), and let the older women sit, who do have a chiyuv, or should you keep all your kids nice and quiet at the expense of the other people's respect and comfort?

I find it shocking when there are loads of young children sprawled all over the seats, eating nosh and obviously not partaking in davenning, as they are too small to, while the elder adults stand throughout shul. I stod through part of yom kippur on crutches (not voluntarily), while some me me mother insisted that her 2 year old had the right to my paid for seat. And her 4 yo had my disabled mother's seat. I took my mom home, she couldn't stand and the wheelchair didn't fit in the shul. She would happily have sat in her seat, if there wasn't a child "who would have made such a noise if she hadn't been sitting down".

I go to a family megillah reading, kids sit on parent's lap or on chairs if there are. Specific comfortable chairs reserved for disabled and elderly. Kids taken out if noisy, but given a chance to be quiet and listen. No one got taken out last night, and only one who got scared at Haman today.
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vicki




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 11:42 am
amother wrote:
If your kids are only quiet and good when sitting, and you don't want to disturb the megillah, but there are adults standing throughout, is it better to take your kids out (who don't have a chiyuv), and let the older women sit, who do have a chiyuv, or should you keep all your kids nice and quiet at the expense of the other people's respect and comfort?

I find it shocking when there are loads of young children sprawled all over the seats, eating nosh and obviously not partaking in davenning, as they are too small to, while the elder adults stand throughout shul. I stod through part of yom kippur on crutches (not voluntarily), while some me me mother insisted that her 2 year old had the right to my paid for seat. And her 4 yo had my disabled mother's seat. I took my mom home, she couldn't stand and the wheelchair didn't fit in the shul. She would happily have sat in her seat, if there wasn't a child "who would have made such a noise if she hadn't been sitting down".

I go to a family megillah reading, kids sit on parent's lap or on chairs if there are. Specific comfortable chairs reserved for disabled and elderly. Kids taken out if noisy, but given a chance to be quiet and listen. No one got taken out last night, and only one who got scared at Haman today.

What could she have possibly said to have you give in to her?
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 11:53 am
you're sitting on the floor because nobody offered you a seat? why didn't you ask?

ask for a seat.

say you're not feeling well if you don't look obviously sick. (I have cleared entire groups of seats on the NYC subway by saying I needed a seat and looking really, really ill. people went running)

walk up and ask for the seat. your back hurts/you're preggers/you're not feeling well/simply "I need to sit down"
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amother


 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 12:00 pm
SplitPea wrote:
Yes it's considered common to do but think of it this way. Family with 8
Kids knows if she does not get her kids a seat they will be running around talking and messing up megilla for everyone. So she gets to the reading VERY early so that she can make sure everyone gets seats. They get settles and are happy. Then just before megilla starts people start pouring in. If she makes her kids get up they will not sit as nicely and disturbed others..... She would probably miss words keeping them quiet and not be yotze.

Honestly I think it's crazy that women's sections have such few seats. You don't see men needing to stand because there are not enligh seats


These ladies were in agony. My husband built the ladies section of our shul contributing his time and money. Please don't complain about the size of the section unless you are prepared to do the same. I am furious watching these ladies in agony. The one heavy lady obviously had something wrong with her hip. A mother could have made one of her older children very up or put a younger one in her lap. I would have given up my seat, but I already gave it up.
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notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 4:40 pm
1) ppl with kids who r young enough to need to b held are 99.9% of the time too young to b at the megilah
2) a 12 yr old girl has the same chiyuv as an adult to focus and hear every word
3) if u know u need a seat come 15 minutes early. dont come a minute before starting and expect others to b paying attn. ppl r focusing on the megilah, not looking around to see who is coming.
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 6:17 pm
amother wrote:

I stod through part of yom kippur on crutches (not voluntarily), while some me me mother insisted that her 2 year old had the right to my paid for seat. And her 4 yo had my disabled mother's seat. I took my mom home, she couldn't stand and the wheelchair didn't fit in the shul. She would happily have sat in her seat, if there wasn't a child "who would have made such a noise if she hadn't been sitting down".



Honestly, sounds like you need to stop letting people walk all over you.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 6:23 pm
some people don't even notice these things ... that's how much they don't care or wouldn't bother

it would be a good thing to trade off with your husband for megilla readings - as well as go to a shul with ample space
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myself




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 16 2014, 6:49 pm
Firstly, I agree that kids don't belong in a shul megilla reading.

Kids aside, megilla reading in shul is generally packed so if you can't stand make sure to arrive early or go to a less packed reading.

When I knew I wouldn't be able to stand for the duration I skipped shul and found a reading in someone's home or went really early. You can't always expect others to give up their seats for you.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 17 2014, 12:00 am
oliveoil wrote:
Honestly, sounds like you need to stop letting people walk all over you.


I'm not the OP, but I've seen things like she describes, and its not so easy. A friend has a large extended family, and her father buys seats for all of them -- 7 seats on the women's side, with a seat that is easy to access for her disabled mother. One year, a woman and her kids sat in the seats. My friend quietly and politely said that they were her family's seats, and pointed out that there were other seats the woman could use at that time. The woman was irate, and started yelling. My friend showed her the tickets and the seating chart. The woman just kept yelling -- I mean YELLING -- during davening. Other than resorting to physical violence, there was nothing my friend could do. (Our gabbais, in a word, are not very good.) My friend moved. ETA -- and the woman followed her to the new seats, and continued yelling. It was truly bizarre.

In any case, I agree with the OP here. Our shul is usually quite crowded for megillah. I'm not so young anymore. I don't care to sit on the floor, and I don't care to stand so that your 2 year-old, who is yelling and playing with toys and getting up every 5 minutes anyway, can have his own seat. Yes, his costume is really cute. That's not the purpose of a megillah reading.
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