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Forum
-> Yom Tov / Holidays
-> Purim
Were you Disturbed during megilla reading?
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| Yes by a child talking |
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17% |
[ 24 ] |
| Yes by a child playing/eating |
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5% |
[ 8 ] |
| Yes by an adult talking |
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5% |
[ 8 ] |
| Yes but for other reasons |
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7% |
[ 10 ] |
| Yes for multiple reasons |
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10% |
[ 14 ] |
| No |
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52% |
[ 72 ] |
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| Total Votes : 136 |
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marina
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 Mon, Mar 17 2014, 1:17 pm
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My point with my little story is that you never know how your drama about not hearing every word will affect someone. Maybe not that well.
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gold21
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 1:18 pm
| marina wrote: | The last time I cared about hearing megillah, I went to a second reading at someone's house and took my 4 month old, because uh, yeah, no one was interested in babysitting.
The baby made a little meowling noise. And the Baal Koreh stopped. And then continued. She squirmed in my arms and yawned and he stopped again. I was embarrassed and picked her up and left.
Since then, I don't actually worry about hearing megillah anymore. |
I hear ya.
Things have got to get more mom-friendly or yeah, people will burn out.
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m in Israel
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 1:46 pm
I went to a second "ladies reading" in shul both night and day. It is a quick no-nonsense reading for women who couldn't come to the regular reading (usually because of young kids at home), and after the husbands or older kids come home from the first reading they run out to hear it. They don't even stop to make noise by Haman, so no one really brings little kids (after all, there's no point if they can't shake their graggers!) There was absolutely no noise or disturbances inside by either reading (there were between 20 and 30 ladies/ older girls at each one).
However I voted I was disturbed by something else because at the night reading the windows were open and the neighborhood outside was already beginning to get noisy. So we heard singing and music from outside, as well as noises from firecrackers and things like that -- I live in Eretz Yisroel and Purim night here is quite "lebidik"! It really made it hard to hear. Apparently I wasn't the only one with the problem because by the day reading the Baal Koreh said that some women complained the night before, so he suggested everyone move into the men's section (there were no men listening anyway), to be closer to the Baal Koreh so hopefully it will be easier to hear! (And actually it was much better).
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lech lecha08
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 1:47 pm
The baal koreh's wife brought her twin 2 year olds. They were not quiet for more than 2 minutes at a time, not that I'd expect them to be at that age. What we really annoyed me is I left my 5 year old at home since I knew she couldn't sit still long enough and didn't want her to disturb me or others and ended up barely being able to hear anyway.
Plus there were some older (10 y.o. or so) boys who were wandering and playing and slowly gathering other boys who HAD been sitting nicely to join their group. They're definitely old enough to know better
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SplitPea
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 1:48 pm
| marina wrote: | | My point with my little story is that you never know how your drama about not hearing every word will affect someone. Maybe not that well. |
Sorry I didn't know HAlACA was drama now?
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SplitPea
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 1:52 pm
| marina wrote: | | Because some of our husbands aren't interested or don't like kids or are busy or are sick or are running around doing a gazillion other things or roll their eyes and make a big production or are divorced or separated from us or are away for Purim. That's why. |
Sick, divorced or separated are the ONLY valid excuses you listed.
And I should hope in that situation someone could help the mom out.
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Frumdoc
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 3:02 pm
Good mix of kids from about 6 months to 15 or so in both megillah readings. Both surprisingly quiet, one small, quick, in a house, second one large, designed for kids but was the only one I got to after oversleeping having gone a bit OTT preparing for the seuda the night before.
Full of kids, all enthusiastically making a noise for Haman, but quiet as a mouse otherwise! One dad took his 2 yr old horse and 3 yr old cat out, after they said about two words. Not a frum crowd, but uber respectful and a real pleasure, as well as a surprise. Was expecting much worse, couldn't have been better. I was concentrating quite hard, I may not have noticed if there were kids making a bit of noise, but nothing major.
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SacN
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 3:04 pm
I was disturbed by some little kids at the night time megilla (and yes, my shul offers two leinings).
I found it very irritating, as I'd gone out of my way to arrange a babysitter for the AM megilla reading, when my husband was already headed to work.
Single moms, mothers with sick husbands, etc, can also arrange babysitters. Please do not bring your small (costumed) children to hear Megilla, unless you are trying to be mechanech them to disturb others (and I hope you are not).
On another note, in the morning, my baal koreh was not very clear. I had to strain to understand/hear him, and lost my place in the megilla a few times. Thank G-d there were no kids at that leining, or I would have had to go to another one, as I surely would have missed some of the megilla.
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Isramom8
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 3:06 pm
It does seem embarrassing for the baal korah to stop - twice - just because of your baby. Your baby maybe shouldn't have been there to begin with. But despite planning and good intentions, it is possible that nothing worked out as far as someone else watching the baby.
In that case I'd assume that the mother might be freed of her obligation at some point. (Any chance of a private reading at someone's home?)
It still doesn't excuse her from never attempting ever again to observe the mitzvah of hearing megillah. That shows a lack of understanding in the first place, if it's all about, oh, my society made me feel depressed about this when I had a crying baby so forget about my involvement ever again.
My daughter missed zachor this year. But you know what, she has two babies who keep her up at night, one of whom nurses like all the time, and the rest of us had to hear it too. So she didn't because she is busy doing what Hashem wants her to do more at this time. Another year she will serve Hashem by going to hear zachor. She feels that this is right.
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chatouli
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 3:35 pm
I also find it inappropriate to bring small kids to the megillah if it is avoidable. That being said, of course it isn't always avoidable. One shul where I live had a quiet reading and invited children to watch Megillas Lester in an adjacent room. I thought that was a nice idea.
What really annoyed me though was that my DS (age 4) was taught in gan that he will be going to hear the megillah and so of course he was very disappointed that he was not allowed to go. I wish they had not taught him that he would be hearing it. There is NO WAY he could sit nicely with me without driving everyone in about a ten seat radius nuts. Maybe next year.
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Raisin
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 3:50 pm
| marina wrote: | | My point with my little story is that you never know how your drama about not hearing every word will affect someone. Maybe not that well. |
I think there are other factors at play here in your case. Lets be honest.
But yes, I agree with not shushing people. There is never a good reason to embarrass people, which afaik is a mitzva d'araisa and megilla is a drabannan. There are excellent reasons why someone might bring a baby to shul. I was lucky to have an available babysitter this purim, otherwise I would have missed megilla reading or would have had to bring him to shul.
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Basya
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 5:28 pm
Firstly, I completely agree that Morahs should NOT be teaching kids that they will go to shul to hear megilla. They don't belong there. I had a heck of a time convincing my kids (ages 3 & 6) that it was okay for them to stay home with my husband - who "leined" the megilla for them - He read a few pesukim from the first perek, and a few pesukim with Haman in it, and they (the kids) were done.
I don't think it is fair to kids to ask them to sit for that long - what for? - They have no obligation!
Secondly, I don't understand the rationale "I will bring my kids/baby until they make noise. If they make noise, I will take them out. That my friend, - is too little, too late. Someone who missed a syllable due to that (however minute) noise, is not yotzei - and it is YOUR fault. Like another poster mentioned previously, I'm no rav - but rather not be yotzei yourself than TAKE A CHANCE to cause others not to be yotzei as well. - Can anyone argue with that??
Where I live there is a plethora of options - minyanim, people in their house that read, ladies readings - you name it. Yet the majority - YES, MAJORITY, of people choose to bring, babies, toddlers and little kids to megilla readings. And I do know that the majority of people are not divorced, widowed or the like.
My solution - I read the megilla (more like mouth the megilla) along with the ba'al koreh so that if I miss a word, I know I am yotzei by saying it. However, it doesn't stop me from being upset about the whole situation.
Same story for parshas zachor. In my shul there were 4 readings - 1) Main one during leining 2)Immediately after davening 3) 20 minutes after davening 4) Later in the afternoon. I went to the first one - and it was jammed with kids, babies, toddlers, making a racket through the whole thing.
Phew! Glad I got that off my chest. Bring on the bashing.
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mummiedearest
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 5:53 pm
| Basya wrote: | Firstly, I completely agree that Morahs should NOT be teaching kids that they will go to shul to hear megilla. They don't belong there. I had a heck of a time convincing my kids (ages 3 & 6) that it was okay for them to stay home with my husband - who "leined" the megilla for them - He read a few pesukim from the first perek, and a few pesukim with Haman in it, and they (the kids) were done.
I don't think it is fair to kids to ask them to sit for that long - what for? - They have no obligation!
Secondly, I don't understand the rationale "I will bring my kids/baby until they make noise. If they make noise, I will take them out. That my friend, - is too little, too late. Someone who missed a syllable due to that (however minute) noise, is not yotzei - and it is YOUR fault. Like another poster mentioned previously, I'm no rav - but rather not be yotzei yourself than TAKE A CHANCE to cause others not to be yotzei as well. - Can anyone argue with that??
Where I live there is a plethora of options - minyanim, people in their house that read, ladies readings - you name it. Yet the majority - YES, MAJORITY, of people choose to bring, babies, toddlers and little kids to megilla readings. And I do know that the majority of people are not divorced, widowed or the like.
My solution - I read the megilla (more like mouth the megilla) along with the ba'al koreh so that if I miss a word, I know I am yotzei by saying it. However, it doesn't stop me from being upset about the whole situation.
Same story for parshas zachor. In my shul there were 4 readings - 1) Main one during leining 2)Immediately after davening 3) 20 minutes after davening 4) Later in the afternoon. I went to the first one - and it was jammed with kids, babies, toddlers, making a racket through the whole thing.
Phew! Glad I got that off my chest. Bring on the bashing. |
about the "it's never ok to bring a baby and assume you will take them out if they make noise": in my area, women often bring their small children to the second readings. I don't see the point in my going to the second reading if I won't be able to hear anyway. I know my child, and she would have been just fine during a normal reading had there not been pop-pops in shul. I do not allow my kids to go to shul on shabbos until I am certain they can sit through the whole thing without disturbing davening. I positioned myself right at the door, which means that I was just close enough to hear without straining. one step out the door and I couldn't hear the words (with the door open). fact is, the girls with the pop-pops disturbed the entire shul. for those of you who are not familiar with pop-pops: http://www.houseofrave.com/pop......html
I think we can rely on parents to do the best they can in the circumstances.
as for missing one word means not yotzei, everyone can read those words they missed on their own. an adult sneezing can make you miss a word as well as a small child saying anything. and it's been years since I've heard anyone read the megilla slow enough for anyone to discern the words.
I understand your frustration, and I understand those who feel it's unfair to bring a baby.
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Isramom8
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 6:02 pm
Where is the concern for the mitzvah being fulfilled properly? Each shul should take responsibility:
1. To provide a second reading.
2. To clarify that children younger than a certain age are not to attend, and that this is the reason the shul is providing an additional reading.
3. To ensure that the reader is a man who reads clearly, loudly and slowly enough.
Ladies, speak up! Call your shul's rav today and correct these things for next year. Then call again around Rosh Chodesh Adar.
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anon for this
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 7:34 pm
| marina wrote: | | Because some of our husbands aren't interested or don't like kids or are busy or are sick or are running around doing a gazillion other things or roll their eyes and make a big production or are divorced or separated from us or are away for Purim. That's why. |
Single parent here. Babysitters aren't that easy to find, so when my children were younger I usually missed megilla.
This year, near the end of megilla reading, my youngest very quietly asked if the reading was over, and her sister very quietly told her it would be a few more minutes. Other than that my children were quiet throughout. We were sitting off to the side, so we were the only ones who heard.
Posting under my screenname so you can flame me if you'd like.
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MaBelleVie
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 7:47 pm
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One of my friends posted in the community group that she would be happy to babysit for anyone who needed due to extenuating circumstances. I thought that was very thoughtful, and I hope some single moms (or others) took her up on the offer.
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goodmorning
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 8:19 pm
| Basya wrote: |
My solution - I read the megilla (more like mouth the megilla) along with the ba'al koreh so that if I miss a word, I know I am yotzei by saying it. However, it doesn't stop me from being upset about the whole situation. |
Just to point out, if by "mouth" you mean that your reading is inaudible, it doesn't help at all -- if you miss a word, you must read it yourself, meaning, in a way that your ears can hear the words. (Of course, if you read the whole megillah sotto voce, your whispering may distract you and/or others from the baal korei's leining and you can't be yotzei by leining the whole megillah without a klaf...)
Is it so hard to tell if you missed a word and say it yourself if/when that happens?
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MMCH
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 8:27 pm
at night I went to a very late one, and there were no children.
but plenty of noisy adults.there was one, where honestly, it was almost comical how many times this man sneezed and blew his nose. it comes to a point where he should have left.
by day, it was private for women, in someone's basement. not a kid in sight.
parshas zachor, I was mortified. I went to a late reading, like 630, and my 3 year old begged me to come, I saw a bunch of kids going in, I figured, shes really good, she'll be quiet, she always is in shul...
the SECOND the bal koreh started she said out loud "WHY IS EVERYONE SO QUIET!?!"
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ShanaMatele
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 8:38 pm
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You all are making me feel *very* Blessed to live in my community. I brought my oldest child when she was 7 or 8 for the very first time, and we had a long talk about Megilla behavior beforehand. ZERO noise, use the restroom beforehand, no sitting next to friends, etc. Only once have I had to hear the Megilla a second time, and the "kids in the hallway" has been significantly cracked down on since then. It is very possible for all of you to speak to your local Rabbeim about this issue and improve the situation.
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flowerpower
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Mon, Mar 17 2014, 9:30 pm
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At night I took my kids to the local shul. I came early and took corner seats where its private because my toddler is restless. It was a full house but noone spoke during the reading. Toddler did fidget and stuff but only on my lap. Noone was near me so she didn't bother anyone.
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