To that selfish woman at Children's Place in BP today:

amother

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 1:12 pm

Marina.... In theory I agree with you 1000%
In reality , maybe in Columbus Ohio , it's like you say.
In Lakewood / BP , based on 40 years if life experience , usually it's just a product of a population that's very over indulged , self-involved, and has an overwhelming sense if entitlement

Fox

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 1:22 pm

Are these kinds of situations such frequent occurrences in your lives that you feel the need to be so assertive? Sure, I've had people behave similarly -- maybe once or twice a year. And I shop at frum stores and supermarkets all the time.

If you live in a community in which these kinds of problems are commonplace, I would strongly suggest that exit Imamother and start making plans to GET THE *%#@ OUT OF YOUR DYSTOPIC ENVIRONMENT!

Sure, assertiveness is important in certain situations. But because someone usurped a place in line? Whatever happened to a tight-lipped smile that doesn't reach your eyes? Whatever happened to a ladylike pursing of the lips to show disapproval?

And if you live in a place in which civility has fallen apart to the extent that some of you describe, why are you shocked and upset when more serious violations of societal standards occur? Perhaps a Bill Bratton-like approach to "how we behave in retail establishments" would stem the tide of more serious offenses.

Honestly, I think this thread should come with a "trigger" warning. I can only hope that the topic has caused everyone to dredge up a lifetime's store of such offenses -- not just things witnessed in the last year or so. The alternative is too disturbing for me to contemplate.

Barbara

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 1:24 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Didn't you guys ever hear this one? This whole thread reminds me of it....
SNIP

A college job included setting up accounts for people. The first few days of the school year were always extremely busy. First day of the semester, someone cuts the line and demands help. I don't even look up; I tell him get in line, and I'll help him when its his turn. He does. And when he finally gets to my desk, he says, "I don't believe we've met. I'm the Dean."

OOTBubby

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 1:26 pm

Fox wrote:

Yes, Fox, that's true. Where WE live, it is a rare occurrence. Where many of the other posters live unfortunately it happens too frequently.

invisiblecircus

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 1:40 pm

marina wrote:

Yes, there are real situations where two people's dire circumstances conflict and that's a very challenging spot to be in. I don't know what the answer is.

I think the answer is that whoever was in line first should served first! Or am I missing something? I mean, you can stand and argue about whose circumstances are more dire if you want, but it would just waste time.

Fox

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 1:56 pm

OOTBubby wrote:

Yes, Fox, that's true. Where WE live, it is a rare occurrence. Where many of the other posters live unfortunately it happens too frequently.

LOL! Maybe I shouldn't be encouraging everyone to bring their assertiveness here, then!

Or maybe it's us! You've long kept decorum in the women's section at shul with pursed-lip looks at any Chatty Cathys, and I do my best to imitate the same look when faced with misbehavior at Cheder events. Perhaps we need to go on the road and teach workshops on, "How to Call Attention to Bad Behavior Without Behaving Badly Yourself."

Nah, it'd never work. We'd have to leave our houses to do that.

naturalmom5

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 2:08 pm

Fox wrote:

Note to self... Move to Chicago
Fox, please give my warmest regards to Mr Rogers Smile

inexorablyme

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 2:37 pm

Ya know, I used to be the queen of DLKZ. I could concoct the craziest, saddest, most convoluted stories in my head for why people behaved the way they did. My DH works in a very busy store in Flatbush, and would come home with horror stories daily. People cutting in line. People haggling over the prices. People calling him names. Daily, I'd hear these stories and daily I'd imagine all the same scenarios that Marina put forth...the dying parents, the abusive spouses, the difficult children. So many tragedies...Of course this was easy for me because I didn't go shopping frequently in our neighborhood. I wasn't on the front lines of the battlefield that is Brooklyn shopping.

Then I had a baby.

I cannot count the number of times I've had cars nearly hit me and the stroller as we walk through the streets. Not jaywalking. Crossing at intersections where we have the right of way. My husband was out once and a man blew through a red light, missing him and the stroller so that he could park on the other side of the intersection. As the man got out of his car, my DH jokingly told the man, "eh, nice red"...only to be screamed at. I can be DLKZ in all sorts of crazy ways, but really, once you entitled behavior endangers my child? All bets are off.

Sure, maybe all the double parkers, line cutters, stop sign ignorers are all going through terrible, terrible things. But maybe they are just jerks. Selfish, entitled jerks. Who, unfortunately, ruin it for those who are going through real hard times and just need a little TLC and understanding from all of us.

monseychick

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 2:45 pm

inexorablyme wrote:

Can I like this a quadrillion times.......

ally

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 2:56 pm

Barbara wrote:

That is terrific.

groisamomma

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 3:01 pm

Barbara wrote:

I've been in line when I realized that I forgot a box of pasta, or some single, discrete item, so I don't really have a problem with someone running off for a single item. Its when its 20 or 30 that it bothers me. But what do you say -- they say "I was in line" and "it was just an item."

Serious question -- how do you count items for the express line. You have 4 apples in a bag to be weighed -- 1 item, right? What if you have 2 boxes of pasta, same brand and type. Two items? Or one?

Everyone forgets things sometimes; running for one or two items is normal. Putting your cart fourth in line empty while you go around with your list and filling it up while it's in line is rude, rude, rude.

If Express says 10 items, I assume a bag of apples counts for one. There's really no reason to pick a fight for one or two extra...it's when the person has 19 (!) items and has already irritated me for shopping while in line.

gp2.0

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 3:20 pm

My experience dealing with people in Brooklyn is, if you give an inch, they take a mile. So for example if I don't speak up when someone cuts in line, there's a big chance someone ELSE will cut in front of me too. They'll figure that you're not "really" in line or something.

I see this all the time with driving - one driver will make an illegal turn in front of me while I'm just far away enough, and the car behind him will try doing the same exact thing even though I'm now too close. So according to DLKZ, I should just come to a screeching stop and let everyone make their illegal turns, but you know what? I just keep going, and let them slam the brakes - the way they're supposed to. Otherwise a ten minute drive will take forty.

farm

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 4:40 pm

Barbara wrote:

What happened next?

lubaussie

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 8:05 pm

IMHopinion wrote:

I don't like to argue, especially when there's no point .
We can go back and forth all day.
I'm never going to believe that it's ever right to cut lines, ever, without asking other shoppers, and you'll continue to disagree.

And yes, I do believe in offering others to go ahead sometimes, when the situation call for it, I've done it plenty.
But I'll never excuse someone being not Mentchlich. (why isn't there an English word for that?)

It's called decency.

saw50st8

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 8:29 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

I agree with this.

I will NEVER voluntarily live in Brooklyn again. My husband doesn't even want to go back for visits.

Marina, there are subsets of people who just are very self involved. They aren't going through anything. They just think they are more important than everyone else.