If You Are Pro Vaccinations...

amother

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 2:39 pm

rosehill wrote:

If my DTaP is up to date, and I have colonization of the upper nasal passages, I wouldn't know it, right? Could I then pass it on to say, a baby who hasn't been vaccinated yet, and could that baby get sick?

Three reasons I would say extremely unlikely:
(1) If you are vaccinated and up to date, then you have given your protection to your baby. Then, when your protection of the baby wains, they get the vaccine. So, they are always protected.
(2) You have to have the right exposure to become colonized. Meaning, you need to be passed a certain number of live bacteria and breath in the correct number (In a this human population where pertussis is rarely found, this would likely mean someone sick or someone directly around a sick person.)
(3) You need to be colonized with a minimum certain number of bacteria in your upper nasal passages to pass to another individual.

imaima

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 2:40 pm

amother wrote:

We've discussed this on plenty of previous threads.

First, the way most understand kol yisrael areivim is that it's about spiritual responsibility for other Jews.

Additionally, I may have a responsibility to others but "chayecha kodmim". IOW, I am responsible for you when it doesn't put me at extra risk. I am not obligated to damage myself to protect you. For example, if I don't have a lifegaurding tube, I should not be jumping in to save you although you may be drowning.

So why does it put you in extra risk? If your kids really have medical issues then they are the ones who get protected when everyone else vaccinates!
And if they are healthy and can be vaccinated but are not, then you wouldn't damage them if you would vaccinate. You would still protect them.

imaima

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 2:46 pm

rosehill wrote:

Except that I actually WANT my kids to contract chickenpox when they're young, as I feel that offers them the greatest immunity from contracting the disease when they're older, and the risk of complication is higher.
'You and your herd' are making it much harder for me to find naturally occurring chickenpox, and are therefore doing me no favors at all.
But I wouldn't ask you to change your behavior to suit my philosophy.

ETA: if it's a disease whose complications worry me enough, like polio, I vaccinate. And I pray. I don't rely on herd immunity. But that's just me.

So, I give you an example. My child contracted chickenpox young. The child was 8 months. Despite nursing, it was a full blown case with one million spots, 10 days of fever, and deep ugly scars. Right before pessach. And probably no "greatest immunity" because the child was under 1.
And even vaccination is not in the cards any more because the child already had it!

So tell me, what benefits did we get from this chickenpox?

Scrabble123

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 3:14 pm

My cousin was uncomfortable vaccinating her child (but was not upfront about that), so instead she told all of the family members & friends to get a Tdap booster before being around her baby. Since I see her almost every Shabbos, I nicely went to my doctor to get the booster. My arm was so swollen and red for weeks which is totally normal, but I had no problem with it. Only when I found out that the mother alone did not yet vax the child was I upset! The kid is over a year old and I still don't know if she ever got the DTaP shot.

Don't rely on me to protect your kid! Do it yourself! If you do it, I'll gladly go along with it!

I'm just curious how many non vaxers ask others to vaccinate to protect their unvaccinated child?

amother

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 5:29 pm

imaima wrote:

Can I get that guaranteed on paper? If I would be 100% sure that "my" kids won't be damaged at all by vaccines, then I would vaccinate yesterday.

amother

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 5:30 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

NOT ONE SINGLE ONE that I know!!!
This sounds beyond ridiculous! Just like I made the choice not to vaccinate, I grant others the same liberty to make their OWN choices!

amother

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 5:31 pm

imaima wrote:

A full blown case at 8 months is very likely immune. Did you check his/her titers?

5*Mom

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 5:40 pm

imaima wrote:

Possibly a lot more than you think. Why don't you do some blood work and find out?

Scrabble123

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 5:44 pm

amother wrote:

NOT ONE SINGLE ONE that I know!!!
This sounds beyond ridiculous! Just like I made the choice not to vaccinate, I grant others the same liberty to make their OWN choices!

Yes it is pretty ridiculous, but doctors advise that family members should get boosters, mother should get a booster, etc. so I guess she feels that if someone doesn't mind shots they should get them. Honestly, I was quite upset when I found out about her not vaccinating the child and then having such requests, but she didn't think of it as a problem at all. I doubt she is the only one. Really, THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE WHO RELY ON HERD IMMUNITY ARE INDIRECTLY DOING.

Scrabble123

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 5:45 pm

imaima wrote:

There is no harm in a chicken pox vaccine if the child already had the virus (or did not). Ask your doctor.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 5:46 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

No... Non vaxers are not the ones telling everyone else to vax. Neither directly nor indirectly.

amother

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 5:52 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

I disagree. Asking someone to get injection especially for you (when they otherwise wouldn't have done it) is VERY DIFFERENT than someone who doesn't vaccinate relying on herd immunity (which is a separate debatable point. I don't believe non-vaxers are relying on herd immunity. Most actually don't believe in herd immunity in the first place!). People who vaccinate do so for their OWN protection. Even if no one else around them vaccinates, if they believe in the effectiveness of vaccines, they would vaccinate, no? So it's not like someone is going and getting a shot JUST in order to protect a non-vaxer. I hope I am clearly explaining myself...

rosehill

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 5:53 pm

amother wrote:

Thank you. Though I would risk pertussis for myself, I work with young children/babies, and I was under the impression that this is one where it's important to be part of the 'herd' since those that have the greatest risk are those who are too young to be vaccinated.
So you're confirming that I am minimizing the risk of transmitting pertussis by getting regular boosters, right?

rosehill

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 5:59 pm

imaima wrote:

I don't really understand your question. If your child demonstrated immunity, that's wonderful. If he didn't, you can give him the shot, or try to expose him again. Why would they not vaccinate him if he doesn't have immunity?

I've had the MMR injection many times, and my bloodwork never demonstrates immunity to measles. I could ask you what benefits did I get from this vaccine?

Not everything works for every person every time.

dancingqueen

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 6:38 pm

amother wrote:

Can I get that guaranteed on paper? If I would be 100% sure that "my" kids won't be damaged at all by vaccines, then I would vaccinate yesterday.

There are no 100% guarantees in life for anything, unfortunately.

I'm just curious, do those who don't vaccinate also eschew other treatments of modern medicine, such as antibiotics, surgeries, procedures, over the counter meds? These were all approved by the FDA as well and could have side effects.

If one and not the other, why?

rosehill

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 6:51 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Speaking only for myself, it's a case-by-case question. One vaccine yes, another surgery no, the other antibiotic sometimes.
I'm limited in my knowledge, and as you say, there's never a guarantee. So I try to get educated, and if I feel the risk of the disease outweighs the risk of the treatment, I treat. If I feel the treatment is not a great solution to a not terribly dangerous disease, I take my chances with letting the body fight it itself.
And I pray.

flowerpower

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 6:57 pm

rosehill wrote:

That is true. That is why it is important for everyone to vaccinate. Because not everyone gets immuned from the shots. If less people got the measles less people would pass it on to those that are not immuned by the shots. Get it????

Scrabble123

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 8:28 pm

amother wrote:

That is false. People who vaccinate do so for their own protection, yes, but not that alone. We vaccinate to protect those who can't. To protect the children we work with. To protect immune-compromised individuals. To protect our grandparents. To protect friends who are diabetics or on immune-suppressant medications. Honestly, if there was an RSV vaccination I would take it so that I could protect someone else's baby, and I do not think that I am the only one saying that.

People who DON'T VACCINATE do it to protect themselves. Sometimes it's because vaccinations truly would be harmful CH'V (and that's when we pro vaxers use our vaccination status to protect those who cannot), other times they are protecting themselves against their own anxieties or facts that they believe to be true which may or may not be.

Honestly, I cannot say for sure that vaccines are 100% safe, but I can say that they definitely do save lives and as I have previous posted on this particular topic, vaccinating is apart of an essential positive attitude that people must possess in life.

I didn't want to turn this topic into a debate. People should do whatever they feel is right. Even though in my ideal world everyone who medically can receive vaccinations would receive vaccinations, I know that what is ideal to me may not be to someone else. I intended for this topic to be a chance for people who are pro vaccinations to be able to discuss them and what they would like to see in the future, but unfortunately it turned into a debate about pro/anti vaccines (which I have no problem with because things are out of my control just like others' decisions to or not to vaccinate)

amother

Thu, Mar 27 2014, 8:41 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

This thread is still pretty civil as compared to past vaccination threads. LOL