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If You Are Pro Vaccinations...
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supty




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 30 2014, 8:57 pm
Culturedpearls wrote:
No I didn't google. A friend just sent me a link.
You're wrong about mumps. You can get it on 1 side only & you will not have full immunity. And what about the risks of infertility & even death? Or do those risks not feature in?


You clearly don't understand what google is lol
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 30 2014, 10:02 pm
amother wrote:
I've actually posted this way upthread already:
Read vaccine inserts for a list of risks.
Check out VAERS for how many have been awarded compensation for being damaged by vaccines.
Find out the percentage chance for being exposed to any of the diseases we vaccinate for. Find out the percentages of permanent damage if exposed to above-mentioned diseases.
Read the ingredients in vaccines. Know what these ingredients are.
Evaluate your comfort level with risks on both ends.
Reach your decision.

This is for starters.


Why do you feel that your understanding of these risks and ingredients is better than that of scientists and doctors who have rigorously tested these vaccines? What is your medical training? You understand that people can report injuries on vaers that are only correlated to the vaccine? And that the risk for contracting these diseases is now rising, especially in communities where many don't vaccinate? And do you do the same cost benefit analysis with every med/treatment your dr recommends or just a specificly with vaccines?

If just with vaccines, it still seems to me that it comes down to fear. Obviously in cases where there are specific risk factors- sick child, previous adverse reaction, it's a totally different story.
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 2:36 am
dancingqueen wrote:
And do you do the same cost benefit analysis with every med/treatment your dr recommends?


YES!
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rosehill




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 5:35 am
dancingqueen wrote:
Why do you feel that your understanding of these risks and ingredients is better than that of scientists and doctors who have rigorously tested these vaccines? What is your medical training? You understand that people can report injuries on vaers that are only correlated to the vaccine? And that the risk for contracting these diseases is now rising, especially in communities where many don't vaccinate? And do you do the same cost benefit analysis with every med/treatment your dr recommends or just a specificly with vaccines?

If just with vaccines, it still seems to me that it comes down to fear. Obviously in cases where there are specific risk factors- sick child, previous adverse reaction, it's a totally different story.


She doesn't understand the risks better than the scientists. She has concluded differently which risks are acceptable to her.
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Culturedpearls




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 9:43 am
Umm, I know well what google is & what all search engines are. Thank you .
Here's a recent collive article. I would really like to hear how so many Lubavitchers who don't vax justify it after reading this.

http://www.collive.com/show_ne.....lacha
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amother


 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 10:09 am
If you're looking for reputable sources, Collive is not it Rolling Eyes Their op-eds are worse than google.

Rabbi Yehoshua Neuwirth paskens:

"One may not obligate any healthy person to receive treatment as a preventive measure. Although one may try to convince the individual, he may do no more. If there was absolute evidence that [an individual] could be a danger to others, such as in spreading infection which could be fatal, then there would be a case for forcing him to have a vaccine, but only if it was certain that the vaccine itself was not dangerous to him."

Basically, as a klal it's easy to recommend vaccines, but for each individual it's not so clear cut. I'm sorry you don't like it. Don't worry, I wouldn't want my kids to marry into a family like yours, who blindly follows doctors. You might give a grandchild of mine yena machla from allowing X-rays in pregnancy, as was the case before research showed it was problematic. I'd like my children to marry into a family of people who actually think.
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scrltfr




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 10:40 am
amother wrote:
Don't worry, I wouldn't want my kids to marry into a family like yours, who blindly follows doctors. You might give a grandchild of mine yena machla from allowing X-rays in pregnancy, as was the case before research showed it was problematic. I'd like my children to marry into a family of people who actually think.


Wow that is a pretty vile thing to say. I completely trust my doctor because he has proven himself to me. Including sending me to a specialist if he is unsure. Hopefully our kids will never meet. Wouldn't want them to get cancer.......
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 10:50 am
rosehill wrote:
She doesn't understand the risks better than the scientists. She has concluded differently which risks are acceptable to her.


This seems very arrogant to me, and many of these "risks" are unfounded and based on correlation. Whatever.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 10:52 am
If your doctor has "proven" himself you you, that means you probably DO think.

Some posters here are of the attitude that doctors are infallible creatures who must be blindly obeyed.

Other of us have learned over the years that this is not true.

SO we also take the vaccine schedule with a grain of salt and weigh it for our children, or follow our doctors IF we have a doctor who has bothered to look into vaccines instead of just spouting whatever they were told in medical school.
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scrltfr




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 10:59 am
amother wrote:
If your doctor has "proven" himself you you, that means you probably DO think.

Some posters here are of the attitude that doctors are infallible creatures who must be blindly obeyed.

Other of us have learned over the years that this is not true.

SO we also take the vaccine schedule with a grain of salt and weigh it for our children, or follow our doctors IF we have a doctor who has bothered to look into vaccines instead of just spouting whatever they were told in medical school.


Still doesn't excuse your cancer remark. Really uncalled for and does not help anyone take your arguments seriously.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 10:59 am
I wish doctors would put more effort into finding a cure for these diseases, or testing immunoglobulins for immunocompromised people. Would also love to see titers done as a matter of course after each vaccine, to give individuals the doses they need.

Perfect vaccination is impossible, especially when no vaccine is 100% effective, and immunity wears off after an unknown amount of time.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 12:50 pm
dancingqueen wrote:
This seems very arrogant to me, and many of these "risks" are unfounded and based on correlation. Whatever.

I don't think it's arrogant at all. The researchers are not assessing risk per kid, they research over all risk. It's like junk food. It meets all the federal guidelines, but I still don't want my kids to have too much of it. So to with vaccines. They meet federal standards, but I still don't want my children to have too many at a time. And if I feel that my child doesn't need something, that is my right as a parent. Who my child may or may not come into contact with MIGHT factor in, but it might not. My risk assessment has nothing to do with the mmr=autism correlation, it has more to do with I just don't want so much going into my child at one time, and I think some vaccines are not needed.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 1:59 pm
amother wrote:
I wish doctors would put more effort into finding a cure for these diseases, or testing immunoglobulins for immunocompromised people. Would also love to see titers done as a matter of course after each vaccine, to give individuals the doses they need.

Perfect vaccination is impossible, especially when no vaccine is 100% effective, and immunity wears off after an unknown amount of time.


This is impossible. Medicine by definition can't cure anything. It can either prevent (vaccines) disease or it can treat after a disease is already diagnosed. But, a cures are magical. A cure would mean to change a genotype, change a bacteria or virus. Only Hashem can do that! (Think about when they did gene replacement therapy in France a few years back -disaster.)

They have been testing antibodies from immunocompromised people for decades. But, antibodies come from somewhere. Finding that first step is important. But, you don't see people in a doctors office until there is disease. At that point, its too late to stop the first step. And, you can't assume the world will go through that step and preemptively treat everyone.

If you ask, they will take antibody titers for any vaccine you have. Without boosters, they wain fast. They can't treat your child as an experiment and give them x dose this visit and x dose that visit, Just like there are no cures, there is no perfect vaccine. And, not all vaccines 'wear off.' In the current world, where Hashem has not gifted cures to men, prevention is the best medicine.
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Culturedpearls




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 4:49 pm
amother wrote:
If you're looking for reputable sources, Collive is not it Rolling Eyes Their op-eds are worse than google.

Rabbi Yehoshua Neuwirth paskens:

"One may not obligate any healthy person to receive treatment as a preventive measure. Although one may try to convince the individual, he may do no more. If there was absolute evidence that [an individual] could be a danger to others, such as in spreading infection which could be fatal, then there would be a case for forcing him to have a vaccine, but only if it was certain that the vaccine itself was not dangerous to him."

Basically, as a klal it's easy to recommend vaccines, but for each individual it's not so clear cut. I'm sorry you don't like it. Don't worry, I wouldn't want my kids to marry into a family like yours, who blindly follows doctors. You might give a grandchild of mine yena machla from allowing X-rays in pregnancy, as was the case before research showed it was problematic. I'd like my children to marry into a family of people who actually think.


Well vaccines have proven to be extremely safe & effective. They are much safer than the virus hence one is obligated to give them.
The second part about X-rays is actually too funny. Have you actually also looked into how much radiation one needs to be exposed to & for how long in order to get cancer? Being that you're a thinking person & most likely hold a PHD?
I mean as a thinking person you would have obviously put several degrees under your belt one of them in a medical field of cancer or how medicine has evolved or perhaps how "bankes" can lower a Fever or "blood letting"?
Seriously , don't worry our kids couldn't marry. It's my first question in shidduchim enquiries.
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 4:58 pm
amother wrote:
If you're looking for reputable sources, Collive is not it Rolling Eyes Their op-eds are worse than google.

Rabbi Yehoshua Neuwirth paskens:

"One may not obligate any healthy person to receive treatment as a preventive measure. Although one may try to convince the individual, he may do no more. If there was absolute evidence that [an individual] could be a danger to others, such as in spreading infection which could be fatal, then there would be a case for forcing him to have a vaccine, but only if it was certain that the vaccine itself was not dangerous to him."

Basically, as a klal it's easy to recommend vaccines, but for each individual it's not so clear cut. I'm sorry you don't like it. Don't worry, I wouldn't want my kids to marry into a family like yours, who blindly follows doctors. You might give a grandchild of mine yena machla from allowing X-rays in pregnancy, as was the case before research showed it was problematic. I'd like my children to marry into a family of people who actually think.


Amother you sound as if someone x-rayed you before you were born.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 6:04 pm
amother wrote:
If you're looking for reputable sources, Collive is not it Rolling Eyes Their op-eds are worse than google.

Rabbi Yehoshua Neuwirth paskens:

"One may not obligate any healthy person to receive treatment as a preventive measure. Although one may try to convince the individual, he may do no more. If there was absolute evidence that [an individual] could be a danger to others, such as in spreading infection which could be fatal, then there would be a case for forcing him to have a vaccine, but only if it was certain that the vaccine itself was not dangerous to him."

Basically, as a klal it's easy to recommend vaccines, but for each individual it's not so clear cut. I'm sorry you don't like it. Don't worry, I wouldn't want my kids to marry into a family like yours, who blindly follows doctors. You might give a grandchild of mine yena machla from allowing X-rays in pregnancy, as was the case before research showed it was problematic. I'd like my children to marry into a family of people who actually think.


And, in the words of my rav (about people who don't vaccinate), "some people just are not normal."
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Culturedpearls




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 6:25 pm
Oh & while we're on the topic can we please call Cancer just that? Not Yena Machla?
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MrsDash




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 02 2014, 7:12 pm
imaima wrote:
Amother you sound as if someone x-rayed you before you were born.


My thoughts exactly Rolling Laughter
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