Is gender segregation causing girls to crush on girls?

amother

Mon, Mar 31 2014, 5:37 pm

m in Israel wrote:

I haven't gotten Bina in a while and didn't read the article in question, but "Wings of Triumph" is the name of one of their columns -- I think it comes out every few weeks -- each time with a different real life story. So the article will have it's own name -- but in the top corner of the page it will say "wings of triumph"

Thanks! I found the article in the March 24, 2014 issue. For others who may be looking for it, the column does not say "Wings of Triumph" in the corner, it just says "Feature", and the Title of the article is "Voices of Victory - Blurred Boundaries" by C. Rosenberg. It's listed in the table of contents, in the Feature section, and is on page 21.
Now to deal with the question at hand: Yes, I think that strict gender segregation, is unnatural, and unhealthy. It doesn't solve anything, as it just substitutes same s*x attraction, for opposite s*x attraction outside of marriage.
The focus should be on self control, rather than separation of the sexes, which just leads to greater temptation.

amother

Mon, Mar 31 2014, 5:46 pm

I think that the Jewish people have been doing gender separation for centuries. Girls were never educated with boys, neither did they play with boys. I think the problem is as the world descends into a less moral state, by definition, so do the Jewish people. We are effected by the moral state of the world. Think about what happened in the times of Noach. But, the majority of people today have some level of same gender feelings.

There was a poll taken when I was in undergrad, they had every single student taking an introductory English and Psych class fill out a form (we needed to fill it out to get our final grades). They found 90% of college students had at least some feelings for the same gender. These are people educated in a co-ed environment. This is not unique to us. It is the world we live in.

amother

Mon, Mar 31 2014, 6:48 pm

I did not have that close relationship with a friend. In fact, if I'll be honest, I don't have any real friends now at this point in my life. I don't live in the city where we all grew up. My best friend is still single, and our relationship was never a strongly emotional one.

To say it as it is: I was always jealous of the girls who had such close relationships. I never felt comfortable sharing my innermost private thoughts with anyone. DH fills that void today. I have b"h a great relationship with him. But sometimes, I still wish for that really good best friend to whom I can vent when he doesn't understand me. So yes, I'm still jealous.

I am chassidish and was gender segregated at birth. LOL

So while I haven't answered op's question in a general sense, in my specific situation the answer is no.

amother

Mon, Mar 31 2014, 7:04 pm

I have a long and painful story on this topic, and due to identifying details I can only give a small part of the story.
I come from a difficult background but very few people knew. At the end of high school I developed a very strong connection to an amazing girl who got me like no one else did. We had many long conversations way into the night. She comes from a very well known family in her community. For various reasons, I moved into her home/ boarded by her the next year and shared a room with her. I believe she just had very strong emotional tendencies and I was terribly emotionally deprived. we never slept together or did anything inappropriate but she was a very touchy feely person and I needed those hugs etc so badly. I found myself obsessing over every touch and craving them.

After a few months, I moved out but we still spent many long hours together and our neshamos had this deep connection that no one else could understand. The next year I moved back to my home city and the separation was unbearable. Whenever we met, it was amazing and gut wrenching at the same time. I was dating at that point and found myself too attached to her to consider marriage for real.

It took a lot of soul searching but I broke the relationship with her (it was a mutual decision and in a way I was more hurt and she just found someone else to connect to in that way and I was left alone) and haven't spoken to her in over a decade. It still hurts me to think about it, but I knew it was the only way to date normally and have a normal marriage.

Bh I am married for eight years and although a part of my heart aches with longing for that deep connection, I don't regret it at all. I have a loving solid relationship with my husband and nothing can ever replace that.

However, I wonder if segregation has anything to do with it at all. I don't think if I was in a co ed situation it would be any different. It a soul connection and an emotional connection that has nothing to do with a separation of the genders.

greenfire

Mon, Mar 31 2014, 7:57 pm

amother wrote:

No.

Even many secular studies show that gender segregated studies are best for one's development. Particularly for girls.

PinkFridge wrote:

I agree. See Mystics Mavericks and Merrymakers, or Wendy Shalit's work.

I agree as well - but that is an entirely different reason than same gender crushes ...

learning can stay more focused because girls are smarter & boys tend to be more immature ... therefore the genders do not mix well within education

amother

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 12:08 am

amother wrote:

I'm just curious if this mainly happens to vulnerable/needy girls who crave or are more desperate for emotional connection. Maybe they share too much because they need more love? Does this happen to normal, solid girls?

All I'm going to say is that in prison regular straight men or women become mighty connected irregardless of their "neediness "

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 2:14 am

monseychick wrote:

Or maybe, just maybe you would of married your friend had it been a guy instead of your husb

Or she could have taken that scary step, with the girl friend, and decided on going that way in life (being with a woman)
I know a few stories like that. Girls who got very close with other girls, in high school. At least two or three that I remember now consider themselves gay and frum (and one not frum). That happens as well. Not all of the girls who crush on girls, as that is what its being called on the thread, end the relationship and go meet guys and marry. I just wanted to put it back to reality. It does happen the way I wrote above as well.

HindaRochel

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 8:43 am

amother wrote:

No.

Even many secular studies show that gender segregated studies are best for one's development. Particularly for girls.

There is a difference between separate schools and separate lives. Those who are educated in all girls schools still often have a chance to mingle with others, both male and female, more freely.

The question basically is: does the nearly complete separation of female and males in some segments of Orthodox Jewish society lead to an increase in same-sεx relationships, either romantically or physically, than would otherwise happen?

PinkFridge

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 8:55 am

greenfire wrote:

I just want to say that I don't think there's anything pathological or inherently unhealthy about gender segregation. I don't want someone to read this thread and think they're damaging their children with their personal chinuch or community, etc. choices.

amother

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 8:57 am

gold21 wrote:

Even though the genders are segregated, a girl could still have an unrequited crush on a male neighbor or whatever. I'm not sure that I believe this "segregation causes females to crush on females" theory....

Exactly.
I come from a community that's pretty mixed. So the bais yaakov school has girls from various types of homes. Some girls did have friends who were boys and the other girls may have not crossed that line but did talk about which boys they thought were cute...typical teenage chatter. A classmate of mine whose mother worked in a more yeahivish camp told me about girls in her bunks, over the years, who'd if discuss girl crushes in girls. I remember being pretty shocked. I guess for those girls even talking about a boy neighbor (or looking???) was considered inappropriate. It can probably happen anywhere or anytime if a friendship goes to places it shouldn't. But with zero outlets for normal teenage hormones, like said by above posters, in gender segregated circles, these things are probably more prevalent.

PinkFridge

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 9:02 am

HindaRochel wrote:

Hey, nice to hear from you. Though your sig line, "but then again, I'm a dragon", might lead people not to take you seriously Tongue Out

But I guess you can flip the question: when the opposite occurs, no segregation in some societies, does that lead to an increase in any type of physical relationships, romantically or physically? Etc.?