 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
Forum
-> Relationships
-> Manners & Etiquette
watergirl
|
 Wed, Apr 02 2014, 5:57 am
I have a cousin who just got engaged. For the past 5 years, he has been ben bayis at our house. He comes by with no notice to check his email, asks for left overs, crashes on our couch and has been a frequent Shabbos guest. DH and I have counseled him through his shidduch parsha and were excited to meet his kallah.
I had to work the night of the vort and I could not find someone to cover for me, so I missed it. I wanted to take them out for dinner but the kallah says there is no time to go. They have been close to my house recently and didn't tell me. She clearly doesn't want to meet us.
My daughter, 10, loves him. She was not invited to the wedding, which I can understand. Sometimes they have to cut back, and kids are the first to make the cut. But my father was upset and felt that due to the many MANY meals we have fed him over the years, they can feed her once. So he called the chassons mother and she actually called me to tell me to please bring my daughter.
Just now, my cousin the chassan called to tell me that she cant come. The kallah told him that her side isn't inviting kids and they expect his side to also leave them out. Now that she knows she was invited, I feel its rude to uninvited her. I told him that I totally understood and acted cool and casual about it.
How do I tell her that she cant come? Also, I want to avoid a scene with my father, who isn't known to hold back.
| |
|
| Back to top |
 23
 0
|
amother
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 6:25 am
Don't go to the wedding and take your daughter out for a treat instead. That's what I'd do, but might not be the best solution for you 
Is the problem just the food? Can you take your daughter to the chuppah then both of you leave? Would she be allowed to go to the dancing once the meal is over?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
30
|
b from nj
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 6:26 am
It's really up to the chosson/kallah to decide who makes the cut & who doesn't. It's really not your father's business to decide what they (his nephew & future niece) should do.
I think you will have to gently break the news to your DD that they are not inviting ANY kids so that she doesn't think of it as a personal insult.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
23
|
morah
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 6:59 am
|
I'm sorry your father got you into this pickle. I think you should respect the bride's wishes, as it seems she was railroaded into it from the start. Even bringing to just the chuppah could be an issue, as all those people who were told "sorry, no kids" are going to be annoyed that they jumped through hoops to find a sitter, and somebody else who should have didn't (it's not like they'll know the back story). I think you should tell your daughter that the chossen and kallah very much wanted her to come, but when they thought about it, they realized the party was just too grownup-y and felt it best that she stay home. Maybe they will let her come to a sheva brachos? That might help. As to your dad, perhaps don't tell him she was uninvited, just make up some excuse why you ended up deciding it's best to keep her home. A little white lie for shalom is allowed.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
26
|
busydev
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 7:09 am
ita with morah
just wanted to add-maybe get her a special treat for the wedding night so she doesnt feel totally bad about it.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
4
|
amother
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 7:27 am
| morah wrote: | | Even bringing to just the chuppah could be an issue, as all those people who were told "sorry, no kids" are going to be annoyed that they jumped through hoops to find a sitter, and somebody else who should have didn't (it's not like they'll know the back story). |
Is this normal etiquette? We could not invite kids to our wedding but many people brought the kids to the chuppah without asking in advance if it was OK. None of them were family. Our wedding was in a shul.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
amother
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 8:59 am
|
This is not normal to me. Where I come from family is EVERYTHING. so you cut random faces to have family. 10 isn't a child. It's not like a toddler running around. She's old enough to be a guest.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
11
|
agreer
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 8:59 am
I would bring her anyways. Maybe just for chupa and dancing, not for eating, though.
Don't crush her dreams just because of some immature chosson-kallah.
They may not notice, or this may just be drama before the wedding, but at the actual wedding, no one will care. And if they do, trust me - they will get over it.
How bad will you feel if you make your daughter stay home and see a bunch of other children at the wedding?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
7
|
morah
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 9:11 am
| amother wrote: | | Is this normal etiquette? We could not invite kids to our wedding but many people brought the kids to the chuppah without asking in advance if it was OK. None of them were family. Our wedding was in a shul. |
What are you wondering- is it normal not to invite kids, or normal for people to disregard that directive? I don't think it's right to bring kids uninvited. No kids means no kids. There's ALWAYS someone who decides that it somehow doesn't apply to their kids, and it's unfair to the people who did understand and went to a lot of effort (not to mention cost) to abide by that.
BTW, I do think it's weird for frum people to specifically request no kids, and it is in fact something I have only encountered by secular weddings. I do think, especially where family is concerned, kids should be there. But the fact is, some people can't or don't want to have kids at the wedding, and since it's not your wedding, your opinion doesn't count and you have an obligation to respect the chossen and kallah's wishes.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
7
|
scrltfr
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 9:20 am
|
I specifically did not want kids at my wedding. A friend brought their 2 year old, I noticed and was upset. How do you think my close friends and family felt when seeing that after I told them they couldn't bring their kids?
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
3
|
vicki
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 9:21 am
Oh my goodness.
The bride and groom get to decide who comes to their wedding.
I think the bride's point is that they don't have just one 10 year old cousin to consider (even if the family fed her fiancée many times). They have many young cousins that have to be judged in a group. Each has a special relationship with the bride or groom in his/her own way.
I've NEVER heard of disrespecting a direct request by bringing someone that was not invited to a wedding.
Consider their shalom bayit that might ride on which side does or does not get special treatment in the invitation list.
The wishes or disappointment of a 10 year old girl is not the priority at a wedding.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
18
|
Learning
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 9:27 am
|
I think kids are very simple minded and don't get insulted from that kind of stuff. Just say we made a mistake no kids are invited but Moshe said he really wanted you to come but that's the rule. Don't try to compensate her she will feel she must be wronged if you do that.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
13
|
naturalmom5
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 9:47 am
Judging from bitter experiences I have had , I may not be the right one to participate in this discussion
However, I think that unless your father has a heart condition , chas v shalom and it will affect his health he should give it to this calla over the head and teach her a thing about hakaras hatov
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
5
|
SplitPea
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 9:50 am
I would be a B*tch and tell the chossen is he wants to uninvite after his mom invited her HE can call her himself and tell her she can't come and WHY.
But again I am a B*tch like that
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
23
|
rising hero
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 9:51 am
| agreer wrote: | I would bring her anyways. Maybe just for chupa and dancing, not for eating, though.
Don't crush her dreams just because of some immature chosson-kallah.
They may not notice, or this may just be drama before the wedding, but at the actual wedding, no one will care. And if they do, trust me - they will get over it.
How bad will you feel if you make your daughter stay home and see a bunch of other children at the wedding? |
I disagree. It doesn't matter if they are acting mature or not. It is their wedding. They (or the kallah*) specifically asked not to bring kids, for whatever reason, and you have to respect that.
And what makes you think that other people will bring kids to a wedding they were told not to??
(*op, the kallah might not realize the close relationship the chosson has with your family, I wouldn't put any blame on her for not rushing to meet you or not inviting your daughter.)
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
3
|
vicki
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 10:06 am
| naturalmom5 wrote: | Judging from bitter experiences I have had , I may not be the right one to participate in this discussion
However, I think that unless your father has a heart condition , chas v shalom and it will affect his health he should give it to this calla over the head and teach her a thing about hakaras hatov |
You have no idea what tov might have been done by any other friends or families to the bride and groom over the years. Why is OP's daughter special?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
5
|
imasinger
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 10:43 am
The poor couple. They are probably caught in the middle between pressure from her parents about the no kids rule, and pressure from your dad about inviting your DD.
My suggestion is that you call your cousin, ask what he and his kallah can think of to do with your DD, and then present it to her. Maybe there can be a special job for her at a sheva brachos? Maybe she can make or do something special for her adored cousin, maybe something to wear or use at the wedding? Maybe someone could save her some of the dessert?
My guess is that 3 things -- feeling included somehow, even if not physically present, getting some of the food, and getting to see pictures and videos -- will more than satisfy her.
As for your dad, tell him that this is not his battle to fight, and you are OK with the situation. I suspect there is old history driving his anger, and he needs to let it go.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
4
|
amother
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 10:53 am
| agreer wrote: | I would bring her anyways. Maybe just for chupa and dancing, not for eating, though.
Don't crush her dreams just because of some immature chosson-kallah.
They may not notice, or this may just be drama before the wedding, but at the actual wedding, no one will care. And if they do, trust me - they will get over it.
How bad will you feel if you make your daughter stay home and see a bunch of other children at the wedding? |
That's right. Its extremely immature of a couple to decide the tenor of their own wedding, and to decide whether or not they want children there.
Its especially immature of a young couple to consider their own finances, and the finances of their parents, and to draw lines as to whom they invite.
True maturity is a guest throwing a fit and demanding that his granddaughter be invited to a wedding where he will be a guest. And true maturity is putting the desires of a 10 year old above those of the couple. Because, of course, her dreams and hopes are much, much more important than that of the kallah.
And hey, the fact that none of the bride's cousins were invited? Well, clearly they will know that this child is SPECIAL, and won't care that their own kids weren't invited. Same for all of the couple's friends' kids. And if these people are all angry, if it causes a lot of family problems? How immature of them. The only mature thing is to allow this child to attend the wedding.
Actually, how immature not to invite all of the kids anyway. How many could there be in a frum family. 10? 20? 30? The additional cost will only be a few thousand dollars. Its clearly immature not to spend that money, even if you don't have it, so a bunch of kids can attend the wedding.
OP, if you want to cause a lot of resentment towards you, and between the couple, insist that your child attend the wedding, or bring her without an invitation. If, on the other hand, you are attending the wedding to bring happiness to the couple, and because you wish them well, tell your daughter that kids aren't invited. Then call the chosson and apologize for your father, stating that he was completely out of line and that of course you will be there, without your daughter, on his wedding day.
Your only other alternative is to call the chosson and say that your daughter really wants to come, and that if the issue is money, you will be glad to pay the cost for ALL children, on both sides, attending. If your daughter's wishes are more important than the couple's budget, then put your money where your mouth is.
| |
|
| Back to top |
2
18
|
watergirl
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 11:05 am
| amother wrote: | That's right. Its extremely immature of a couple to decide the tenor of their own wedding, and to decide whether or not they want children there.
Its especially immature of a young couple to consider their own finances, and the finances of their parents, and to draw lines as to whom they invite.
True maturity is a guest throwing a fit and demanding that his granddaughter be invited to a wedding where he will be a guest. And true maturity is putting the desires of a 10 year old above those of the couple. Because, of course, her dreams and hopes are much, much more important than that of the kallah.
And hey, the fact that none of the bride's cousins were invited? Well, clearly they will know that this child is SPECIAL, and won't care that their own kids weren't invited. Same for all of the couple's friends' kids. And if these people are all angry, if it causes a lot of family problems? How immature of them. The only mature thing is to allow this child to attend the wedding.
Actually, how immature not to invite all of the kids anyway. How many could there be in a frum family. 10? 20? 30? The additional cost will only be a few thousand dollars. Its clearly immature not to spend that money, even if you don't have it, so a bunch of kids can attend the wedding.
OP, if you want to cause a lot of resentment towards you, and between the couple, insist that your child attend the wedding, or bring her without an invitation. If, on the other hand, you are attending the wedding to bring happiness to the couple, and because you wish them well, tell your daughter that kids aren't invited. Then call the chosson and apologize for your father, stating that he was completely out of line and that of course you will be there, without your daughter, on his wedding day.
Your only other alternative is to call the chosson and say that your daughter really wants to come, and that if the issue is money, you will be glad to pay the cost for ALL children, on both sides, attending. If your daughter's wishes are more important than the couple's budget, then put your money where your mouth is. |
WOAH - amother, CHILL! I'm not sure you read my original post, or even the title of the post. I was not asking if I should bring her anyways. Like I stated, I already told my cousin that I understand and will leave her at home. I don't know why you are attacking, and I don't know why you are doing it under amother. Also, just for the record, although I don't know why I feel the need to reply to your rude post (which on this thread is the only one to be so rude!) that my family isn't frum. My cousin and I are the only frum ones, which is part of what makes this such a simcha for the two of us. I will be the only frum relative there (and my DH). I am assuming the kallah is an FFB but having not met her, I cant say for sure.
Thank you to the posters who gave great advice. I will explain to my daughter that her cousin didn't realize that there is a no kids rule and that I will bring her dessert and take pictures. She will be disappointed but that's life. I am annoyed, but that's also life, and I guess part of the reason I posted here was to vent a bit. I totally understand not having kids at a wedding. I wish my father hadn't called, and I wish the mother had told him no kids to start with. Everyone is in an awkward position here, and its uncomfortable all the way around (not sure the kallah is uncomfortable, but still).
Last edited by watergirl on Wed, Apr 02 2014, 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
| |
|
| Back to top |
10
15
|
boysrus
|
Wed, Apr 02 2014, 11:07 am
just my two pennies worth:
I am guessing that teh OP is in the USA.
I grew up in Europe and there were always children at every wedding that I ever went to. lots of them.
Then I moved here to the USA, and the circles I mix in are not fancy . Even so, I got a shock when I went to my first wedding here taking my kids age 3 - 6 to the chuppah, and found that everyone stared and glared at me and nobody else had taken their kids! I was completely gobsmacked!
one of the highlights of my childhood was going to chuppahs iwht my mother. where I grew up, if you rparents get an invitaation, they take all kids to the chuppah...
different cultural norms.
anyways, I am sorry for you OP that you are in this situation. good luck
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
5
|
|
Imamother may earn commission when you use our links to make a purchase.
© 2024 Imamother.com - All rights reserved
|  |
 |
|
 |
|
|
