Deleted | Imamother

Ruchel

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 9:31 am

If we look at the parents so much, then no orphan, no adopted either, even born Jewish or whatever.

Parents are definitely data... but the individual is the individual, especially if grown enough to be marriageable.

"small family" LOL. What IS small family? to some it's one to some it's 5 :/ in all cases it could be birth control, or fertility issues solved with davening, or with clomid, or yes indeed IVF or donation or adoption. Unexplained gaps also happen. Assuming is nuts.

Ruchel

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 9:37 am

The Tsits Eliezer I think holds IF a rabbi married a cohen and a girl of non Jewish father, the wedding is still valid and the children regular Cohen. Now, I don't know that many rabbis would do it.

chocolate chips

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 9:38 am

One second am I understand this right?
Would you let your kid marry his/her sibling? I am sure that is not allowed according to the torah never mind DNA/genetically wise it can cause major mutations no?

amother

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 9:47 am

There's going to be almost 8 years between dc #1 and dc #2. Never was I on birth control, and this second child was indeed conceived naturally. A couple people did ask if it was ivf, and I told them to shove it where the sun don't shine, MYOB. Although, I wonder how many people are suspecting that?

vintagebknyc

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 9:47 am

chocolate chips wrote:

does nobody realize that donor agencies keep meticulous records of who donors are?

and if non-jewish sperm is used, to avoid mamzerus, would you be more worried about the very minimal possibility of genetic mutations or your child's shidduch status?

this topic is so offensive on so many levels I can't even believe it's gone on this long.

maybe we should start to discuss donor eggs, really heat things up before shabbas

MaBelleVie

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 10:00 am

vintagebknyc wrote:

I think cc is simply misunderstanding the thread title. It wasn't phrased very well.

Ruchel

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 10:06 am

I went online and searched for more info and I was surprised to read that in France, the donor must be already a dad (though the law is being changed) so for sure you know sibling(s) are around (but legally not more than 10 through donation, either).

I also read here it's aimed only at heteros-xual couples, not homos-xual or single women (this will change I'm betting).

Choice is made on, and only on, blood group, hair and skin. You cannot ask for a religion.
It's all 100% anon and you can't ever know who is receiver or donor was.

So those who want to choose more, or do it alone, need to go the illegal route with all the medical risks involved. Or go foreign.

I didn't know.

(I have seen that until recently those having insemination with dh's sperm and wanting a shomer on top of normal legal checking did it in Israel but there may be a Puah lab in paris now)

amother

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 11:49 am

chocolate chips wrote:

OP: The question is whether you would let your child marry a person conceived of donor sperm.

Bruria

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 12:12 pm

A lot of people are worried about mamzerut, but let's say your husband was never a sperm donor, there wouldn't be a problem at all!!! And I don't think most religious or even non religious people go around donating sperm like that!So, unless you know your husband donated sperm, mamzerut wouldn't be a problem, even if the sperm donor was in fact jewish.

MaBelleVie

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 12:18 pm

Bruria wrote:

If a Jewish woman uses Jewish sperm when she's married to another man, the child who is born can be considered a mamzer.

Bruria

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 12:23 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

If a Jewish woman uses Jewish sperm when she's married to another man, the child who is born can be considered a mamzer.

But if the woman is single, then no. Also, mamzerut is the result of a forbidden s-xual relationship. Even if the woman is married,there would be no zexual relationship there, so one can argue either way...In my humble opinion, I wouldn't think the woman going to a doctor and having artificial insemination any relationship of the sort.

gold21

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 12:26 pm

Wait, but I'm sure there must be a way to ensure that a sperm donor is not jewish, so as to avoid mamzerus issues... No? I could have sworn I read an article about this from Puah, in the Jewish Press....

Bruria

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 12:33 pm

gold21 wrote:

Of course, but let's say you know your husband never donated sperm in his life.

Even if your children were engaged to someone that were children of donor father, you would know that that donor father was not your husband and there would be no chance of your child marrying a half- sibling.

As for a married couple that used a donor, I personally don't think there would be a mamzerut issue because a mamzer is the result of a forbidden zexual relationship. I think the key word here is zexual.

MommyZ

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 12:39 pm

I may be mistaken but I thought Rabbanim look to have people declared not mamzerim, not to find mamzerim. Why is amother so interested in finding mamzerim?

MaBelleVie

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 1:10 pm

Bruria wrote:

Obviously halacha is a lot more complex than that...

amother

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 1:14 pm

amother wrote:

If you have a child already, why would anyone suspect that? I think it's more of a suspicion if you never had kids before and then had one when you were in your 40s.

amother

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 1:16 pm

Father had Jewish maternal grandmother. Raised protestant. Children IVF. Father nifta. Mother Jewish. What is the status of kids?

amother

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 1:17 pm

amother wrote:

Father had Jewish maternal grandmother. Raised protestant. Children IVF. Father nifta. Mother Jewish. What is the status of kids?

Same amother. Can they marry Cohen?

MaBelleVie

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 1:19 pm

amother wrote:

Father had Jewish maternal grandmother. Raised protestant. Children IVF. Father nifta. Mother Jewish. What is the status of kids?

What does this have to do with this thread? The children have two Jewish parents and have the same status as any other.

Bruria

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 1:19 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Obviously halacha is a lot more complex than that...

Certainly halacha is a lot more complex than simply declaring someone a mamzer without knowing the particularities of halacha also. It is not a simple question, so all types of angles should be seen instead of just saying a particular psak is correct or incorrect.

If you think about it, any person could be a mamzer because you can't know if the mother of the family your son/daughter would be marrying cheated or not!! Or their grandmothers, great grandmothers, generations and generations behind!!!

Actually in this case the only person who would for sure not be a mamzer is a ger if you think about it.

But, like someone else already said here, rabbis usually go out of there way to NOT find mamzerim.