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-> Judaism
-> Halachic Questions and Discussions
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Thu, Apr 03 2014, 2:02 pm
Has anyne heard of the concept that when giving a gift to someone, there is no point in toiveling it beforehand because the recipient will anyway need to (re)toivel it?
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bubbebia
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Thu, Apr 03 2014, 2:19 pm
Haven't heard that one. I often tovel things I'm giving ahead of time so the recipient doesn't have to do it (I have easy access to the mikvah). But I am also sure to let the recipient know it has been toveled.
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greenfire
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Thu, Apr 03 2014, 2:46 pm
I don't believe the mitzva is on the owner ... it's on the item - so anybody can toivel it ...
just make sure it's an item they are definitely going to use & not return or exchange
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Rutabaga
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Thu, Apr 03 2014, 2:47 pm
Yes, I learned that you can only tovel something that belongs to you. You can make someone a shaliach to do it for you, but it doesn't "count" if someone does it without your permission.
The only exception to this rule is if you tovel something and then use it yourself before giving it as a gift. So you can tovel a salad bowl or a platter and then give it as a gift with food in/on it.
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Thu, Apr 03 2014, 2:51 pm
greenfire wrote: | I don't believe the mitzva is on the owner ... it's on the item - so anybody can toivel it ...
just make sure it's an item they are definitely going to use & not return or exchange |
I already peeled off the stickers in preparation for toiveling so it's not returnable or exchangeable anymore.
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Thu, Apr 03 2014, 2:53 pm
Rutabaga wrote: | Yes, I learned that you can only tovel something that belongs to you. You can make someone a shaliach to do it for you, but it doesn't "count" if someone does it without your permission.
The only exception to this rule is if you tovel something and then use it yourself before giving it as a gift. So you can tovel a salad bowl or a platter and then give it as a gift with food in/on it. |
and after peeling off all the stickers, I heard this concept that you wrote about here.
It's not a gift I can put something into. But I do quite a few errands for the person I am gifting it to. I am wondering if there's any way this can be considered that I am being a shaliach for him/her. I guess this requires a call to my LOR.
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greenfire
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Thu, Apr 03 2014, 3:16 pm
according to what I just read in Kitzur Shulchon Oruch - chapter 37
the 2 things that stand out are that if a jew toivels them with a brocha and passes it on to another jew - make you you tell them so they don't make a brocha levatala
a young girl or young boy should not be relied on as messengers to toivel because they are not trustworthy
nothing about who should toivel it for whom so long as it's toiveled in a mikva that is 'clean enough to immerse a woman'
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Thu, Apr 03 2014, 3:19 pm
greenfire wrote: | according to what I just read in Kitzur Shulchon Oruch - chapter 37
the 2 things that stand out are that if a jew toivels them with a brocha and passes it on to another jew - make you you tell them so they don't make a brocha levatala
a young girl or young boy should not be relied on as messengers to toivel because they are not trustworthy
nothing about who should toivel it for whom so long as it's toiveled in a mikva that is 'clean enough to immerse a woman' |
We hold never to make a bracha with shem malchus because in today's days you don't know if something is actually manufactured/owned by a yid.
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SplitPea
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Thu, Apr 03 2014, 3:19 pm
In don't get ir. when you toivle an item
You plan on giving as a gift it belongs to YOU. Then you give it to the new owner it belongs to him/her.
Why is there an issue?
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Thu, Apr 03 2014, 3:20 pm
SplitPea wrote: | In don't get ir. when you toivle an item
You plan on giving as a gift it belongs to YOU. Then you give it to the new owner it belongs to him/her.
Why is there an issue? |
If you bought it with the intention of it being a gift, then it seems it's not so simple.
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