Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Parenting our children -> Toddlers
Need help disciplining toddler



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother


 

Post Sat, Apr 05 2014, 10:51 pm
ok so first off I am asking for practical ideas going forward. please no yells of abuse or worse. thank you!

so I have a 2.5yo and a baby (half a year). my older son is forever hurting the baby, even right when we are in middle of lavishing attention on him and ignoring the baby who is playing by himself. due to bein hazmanim, dh has been home with both kids and has had enough of seeing this happen amd having to deal with it all day.

till now I give him a 2min time out whenever he on purpose hurts the baby. he knows he is wrong and that hurting=time out (he will hurt and then go to his crib)
at one time I tried warning and then hitting him (happened 2x) but that didnt either work. next time he hit the baby he said I hurt baby now mommy potch me-so I stopped.

I have just been at a loss. I tried ignoring, walking away with the baby, nothing nothing nothing. I tried lavishing the praise when he kisses or hugs or in general is nice to the baby, hasnt worked. often he will kiss and be nice and then suddenly bop the baby's head.

so dh started lightly hitting his hand when he hurt in addition to time outs. lightly as in ds is more insulted then hurt. I dont think its working and I really dont want to hit and I havent been doing it.
today he was walking by the baby and just kicked him in the face. I picked him up plopped him in his crib for time out and went to the baby. when it was time to come out dh went to get him. next thing I knew he was holding him and had basically told him that you are not allowed to hurt the baby. and was insisting that ds repeat it back. of course being a stubborn 2yo ds was not. after a few minutes of just holding him and not letting him go down dh said if you dont say it you will get an outside time out. one of my neighbors does this, puts her kid on the back porch. so of course after getting into this battle of wills (which u should never do with a toddler) dh puts him in between the locked screen door and the back door. (theres a small space.) he did put on his coat first. he told him to knock when he was ready to say I will not hurt baby. I was like not happening. once he closed the door I told dh that this a battle of wills and ds will win. and I dont think this is the way to do it. dh asked if I had better ideas, but truthfully, im all out. after a few min dh let ds in and ds was totally not phased, told me with a big smile, totty close the door, I turn around and around. of course he never said he wont hurt the baby.

then a little later he was giving the baby a hug and dh said yay you made a good choice and were nice, lets get a candy. he then ld him whenever you are nice to the baby you will get a candy. I have told ds good choice and hugged him and made a big deal abt being nice, but I think rewarding with food and telling him every time is not good idea.
but dh thinks it may work and that he has to stop hurting the baby, its just unacceptable and cannot go on, even if its normal and age appropriate. he just has to stop constantly hurting the baby.

other then calling cps on dh, what advice do you have for us? what can we do to get the message accross to ds. he does understand alot. he knew what we wanted from him, just didnt want to say it. he knows hurting is wrong, but truthfully I think he cant cotrol himslf, which I know is age appropriate. or what should I tell dh to do? he thinks time outs are totally not effective and I agree, but think its the best option so far.
thank you for not just screaming abuse at me (ds is our first and we are trying to figure ot out), and for coming up with other ideas that will hopefully work.
any book recommendations are always appreciated. thank you.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2014, 1:44 am
The theory behind time out is that it should be time out from something good like attention. If ds is not "learning" from the time out consequence then it means that the time out from attention is not aversive enough to ds. In other words he doesn't care enough.
I like to do this instead. If ds hits or kicks, immediately mommy takes hold of his hands or feet depending on which limb he used wrongly and say "you didn't use your hands properly then mommy has to hold them". After saying that one time pay no attention to ds while you are holding his hands (not hurting him, just holding them so he looses his freedom of using them)
After 2 minutes (while he may be kicking or crying), depending on how verbal he is, you can say "are you ready to use your hands properly, like for playing leggo?" If he says yes you let go and repeat consistently as necessary. If he is more verbal you can ask him what do we use hands for? And then brainstorm together. You can stick in " do we use hands for hitting?? Oh no that's not a good idea! Then mommy has to hold Chaim's hands... etc.
Good luck!!
Back to top

chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2014, 1:54 am
Don't let toddler near baby unless totally supervised, for only brief periods, but really, just not very often at all. I have little walls up in my home to keep toddlers in their (safe) area and babies in a safe zone.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2014, 1:54 am
amother wrote:
The theory behind time out is that it should be time out from something good like attention. If ds is not "learning" from the time out consequence then it means that the time out from attention is not aversive enough to ds. In other words he doesn't care enough.
I like to do this instead. If ds hits or kicks, immediately mommy takes hold of his hands or feet depending on which limb he used wrongly and say "you didn't use your hands properly then mommy has to hold them". After saying that one time pay no attention to ds while you are holding his hands (not hurting him, just holding them so he looses his freedom of using them)
After 2 minutes (while he may be kicking or crying), depending on how verbal he is, you can say "are you ready to use your hands properly, like for playing leggo?" If he says yes you let go and repeat consistently as necessary. If he is more verbal you can ask him what do we use hands for? And then brainstorm together. You can stick in " do we use hands for hitting?? Oh no that's not a good idea! Then mommy has to hold Chaim's hands... etc.
Good luck!!

looks like my op was posted twice.
intersting idea. tho based on past reactions I can see him offering me his hands after hitting the baby once I do this a couple times. I can try tho. although often I have to comfort the crying baby so how do I do both at once (when dh isnt home or when im not home)
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2014, 1:54 am
amother wrote:
The theory behind time out is that it should be time out from something good like attention. If ds is not "learning" from the time out consequence then it means that the time out from attention is not aversive enough to ds. In other words he doesn't care enough.
I like to do this instead. If ds hits or kicks, immediately mommy takes hold of his hands or feet depending on which limb he used wrongly and say "you didn't use your hands properly then mommy has to hold them". After saying that one time pay no attention to ds while you are holding his hands (not hurting him, just holding them so he looses his freedom of using them)
After 2 minutes (while he may be kicking or crying), depending on how verbal he is, you can say "are you ready to use your hands properly, like for playing leggo?" If he says yes you let go and repeat consistently as necessary. If he is more verbal you can ask him what do we use hands for? And then brainstorm together. You can stick in " do we use hands for hitting?? Oh no that's not a good idea! Then mommy has to hold Chaim's hands... etc.
Good luck!!

looks like my op was posted twice.
intersting idea. tho based on past reactions I can see him offering me his hands after hitting the baby once I do this a couple times. I can try tho. although often I have to comfort the crying baby so how do I do both at once (when dh isnt home or when im not home)
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2014, 2:13 am
You need to make it an unpleasant experience for him. Put his hands in one of your hands (even a bit firmly if necessary) and start playing with leggos with your other hand. (When ur husband is home to calm the baby) When ds sees your having fun with his toy he will want to join. You will say id love to play with you but you weren't using your hands properly. Wait the 2 minutes. Now are you ready to use your hands properly to play?
Consistency is key to any discipline method. He may hand you his hands to see if he can make it into a game. If you carry through the same way every time regardless of his reaction, the game will lose its fun.
If you are alone you can try to use one hand to calm baby while holding his hands even if you have to bring ds over to where baby is or vice versa. Or say mommy has to calm baby down now but then mommy will have to hold your hands for not using them properly. (Assuming it takes 2 minutes to calm baby) You must carry through though because ds will take every opportunity to test you to see how devoted you are to sticking to one method.
Back to top

5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2014, 2:37 am
Your ds may understand that you don't want him to hit the baby, but he doesn't really understand right and wrong, or why it is wrong. He's still young for empathy and it may still be hard for him to understand that the baby is a person and feels pain and gets hurt like he does, and not a toy which he can hit.

You need to switch methods to one that is more developmentally appropriate.

The first thing you need to do is as chani8 said: Keep your baby away from your toddler, not the other way around. As much as you can, keep the baby in a safe place where the toddler can't get to him. Prevention is 90% of the cure.

When my oldest was that age, she used to pull the hair of another little girl at the babysitter's. We tried holding her hands, time-outs, the babysitter even gently pulled her hair to show her that it hurts, you name it and nothing worked. Then a social worker friend of ours suggested buying her a doll and naming it after the little girl and showing her how to play gently with the doll, teaching her to make "nice" and take care of the doll. From the very next day, the problem disappeared completely and our dd was solicitous and nurturing of this other little girl for the rest of the time they spent together at the babysitter's. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself.

Your son needs to be shown, possibly repeatedly!, how he SHOULD interact with the baby, not just how he may not and you need to remain calm and gentle with your son. When your son hits the baby, calmly and gently say, "No hitting, touch the baby gently like this" and take his hand and help him stroke the baby. When your son tries to throw a toy at the baby, calmly and gently say, "no throwing, give the baby the toy like this" and take his hand and help him give the toy to the baby gently. You will very likely need to repeat this many times. At 2 1/2 this is not a discipline issue; it is a teaching issue. And teaching at this age is a process so give it the time it requires.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2014, 8:52 am
we have been working on this for 5mo already (first couple months he basically ignored the baby). we have been consistantly doing time outs for that time except 1.5 days when I tried hitting a few weeks back. otherwise all time outs.
(and this just happened. he hit me with a bear puppet we have and said hurt mommy time out, so I said ok lets go, and he goes no only bear go time out, I asked him who made the bear hurt mommy he said his name so I told him that he has to go to time out)

how do I find a space for the baby thats safe? everything ive tried ds has gotten to him, either by throwing toys or climbing!!

also since dh decided to use candy rewards for good behaviors late yesterday, ds has gotten 3 candies. I dont like it esp since we had always reserved candy as a treat lekovod shabbos, now dh wants to give him whenever hes nice to the baby.
dh also wants him to stop now. cause he isnt having the easist time and is like he cant keep hurting the baby this needs to stop now.
Back to top

5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2014, 10:06 am
amother wrote:
we have been working on this for 5mo already

Your methods weren't effective so you need to start the clock again. From the beginning.

amother wrote:
how do I find a space for the baby thats safe? everything ive tried ds has gotten to him, either by throwing toys or climbing!!

Put him in a pack 'n play with some toys and play with your older son. Don't leave them together to make dinner or even go to the bathroom. If you need to do those things, or something else important, wear the baby in a baby carrier and put on a CD or video to distract your older son. I'm not a plop-'em-in-front-of-a-video type of mom, but it is crucial to break this cycle--because both you and he have begun to think so negatively of him--and a short video once a day is better than candies, which is a terrible idea for oh-so-many reasons.

PLEASE tell me they are not hard candies? DANGER!
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2014, 10:29 am
no they are not hard candies. im not that stupid. tho they are taffies, which are really not great, tho I told dh that going fwd he should use chocolate chips.
we dont have room for a pac n play, tho I have put the baby in his crib, ds throws things at him. or will try climbing in (he can climb into cribs and pacn plays-tho I stop him when im there) I never leave them alone together. within the past month or so ds learnt to open doors (unless they are locked) so I usually take the baby to the bathroom with me.
I have music playing 95% of the day (which ds loves dancing to) and I overused videos when the baby was a newborn and we have drastically cut back. but even so he was never glued, just distracted for a time.
but alot of time stuff happens when im right there. often I catch the wayward hand or foot, but not always.
and its not just hurting the baby (tho thats what happens most) but also hurting me or dh.
Back to top

5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2014, 10:48 am
It sounds like he needs more structure. If he were engrossed in a game or activity or project with you, he might not be hitting the baby. If you structure his time, and keep him busy, and engage with him for long stretches of time and he still takes breaks just to hit and hurt, you might want to think about sending the baby to a babysitter for an hour or two a day so you can have uninterrupted time with your toddler without the baby. You need to reconnect with your toddler and set him up to succeed.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2014, 10:59 am
im not home with him all day. I work a full day. he goes to a playgroup in the morning and to my mother in the afternoon, where first he takes a nap and then I have siblings home from school so while it does happen by her too its not as often. she also gives him a time out. im only with them ~2 hours in the morning, 2 hours in the evening before bed and weekends. now that its bein hazmanim tho and my mother needs to pesach clean he is home with them all day. the baby does take a couple naps over the day, which gives at least 1 hr of just toddler time but cld be up to 3 if their naps dont overlap. and then we will have pesach too...
Back to top

MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2014, 11:05 am
First of all, I agree that as much as possible you should have them set up so that the older one doesn't have access to the baby. Major major major.

Number two, I would try treating it as an attention seeking behavior. Which means that he doesn't care whether he gets positive attention or negative attention, he'll do anything to get it. What I do in those cases is IGNORE the child when he demonstrates that behavior. Every single time. Instead, lavish lots of attention on the baby, even if he didn't really get hurt. Pick him up and give him hugs and kisses and say oh no you got a booboo! But leave the older one out of the picture, pretend he's not there. Then move on as if nothing happened. At the same time, make sure to praise older child for positive behaviors. I think candy is serious overkill, a genuine smile and words of praise should be plenty. In time, he learns that he only gets attention for positive behaviors, so misbehaving is not worth his time- it just earns attention for the baby.

Don't worry so much about the older one not realizing he's doing something wrong. He realizes. It's age appropriate, it's a stage and he'll outgrow it. Just ride it out.
Back to top
Page 1 of 1 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children -> Toddlers

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Disciplining other people’s kids
by amother
37 Yesterday at 11:53 pm View last post
S/o Disciplining other people’s kids; undermining discipline
by amother
5 Yesterday at 4:57 pm View last post
Toddler night wean
by amother
7 Yesterday at 1:16 pm View last post
Toddler girl clothing links?
by amother
7 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 9:28 pm View last post
Sending Toddler to School
by amother
7 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 6:56 pm View last post