Crying about my dd

mummiedearest

Sun, Apr 06 2014, 11:57 pm

amother wrote:

OP here.

She is my most well behaved kid usually. Once about every 2 months we will have an episode like this where she is totally and beyond reasoning.

You are right about dd 7. I should have punished younger sister more harshly.

To those questioning my parenting. I wont say Im perfect, but I do model good behavior. There is no hitting or shouting in my home and I rarely raise my voice. I did not react when she smashed the window, only made her stay in her room for an extended time.

what you may not realize is that as calm as you generally are, giving a child a two hour time out in addition to being locked out of the house is modeling bad anger management. the child sees you are angry at her for misbehaving, and that you take things to an extreme. she takes things to her own extreme. she hits and bites.

bigbird

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 12:17 am

OP I just want to put in a supportive word here, given all the negative feedback you've been receiving. You're a good mom, you're actively looking for ways to improve and you obviously realize something went wrong because you came on here for advice. We all make mistakes, I myself am guilty of overreacting at times but it doesn't mean that you've ruined your child for life. So don't beat yourself up over it (not that you are but I know I would if I came on here and read these types of responses to my story)

chani8

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 2:12 am

I like that you are generally a calm mother and that you don't scream or yell at your kids. That's awesome. Smile

Sequioa hit the nail on the head here, with the comment that your DD likely tries to be so good all of the time and then finally loses it, and I'm guessing she loses it when there is a serious injustice going on. Many posters have already said that you under-reacted to the 7 year old. That was a definitely an injustice.

Your 8 yo's reaction was in the normal range for a furious 8 yo. Nothing more crazy-making than the victim getting punished for their reaction to being victimized. I'm so with your DD on this. Sad

Abby2

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 2:56 am

Somebody wise once told me that if your child is having a temper tantrum, of course you must not accept the behaviour, but you have to validate her feelings and reflect her emotions.

I think their could have been a different outcome if you took your 8 yr old to her room or time out and said, "Honey, I can see you are upset, it must be so hurtful that after all that effort and work you put into your project, your sister came and destroyed it. But we still dont behave like this, so stay in your room for a few minutes to calm down."

Can you imagine the injusticew she feels has been done. She has suffered the consequence of getting her hard work destroyed and getting into trouble. Its no wonder she behaved like that.

Hatzlocha, these situations are never easy.

imaima

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 5:18 am

amother wrote:

I am crying for your daughter too! This is so so mean that your other daughter smashed her project, and on top of that SHE got punished.
You got so caught up in details that you didn't realize that what ou do is just plain not fair!!!

chayamiriam

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 6:56 am

Hay we all make mistakes! But you have to try to see things from your 8 year olds eyes. Next time be sure to validate your older child's feelings of frustration and hurt again and again and give the 7 year old a speech about not destroying her sisters hard worked on project. The little sister needs time out and your older daughter needs to feel that you are understanding her hurt and frustration It's so hard sometimes to be a parent!

chanee

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 2:25 pm

Biting is never allowed, not in my house either. But after dd8 biting when sister 7 ruined her hard worked on project, the biting should have been ignored, at least for that moment and only focus on dd7 to discipline and get her punishment. Maybe a consequence and to have to rebuild it with dd8's help. Then dd8 should get her lesson that no biting is ever allowed. But because dd8 was dangerous to other siblings you could have take her in another room for time out untill dd7 gets her punishment and then dd8 should be disciplined over biting with some harsher punishment.
You took dd8 outside on the porch where she got more mad and that caused her to bang on the door and window. If she would be in her own room and explained calmly that she can't leave until she can act calm then she would at worst leave on her own but will probably not bite again.
Now that she did break the Window she should get some harsh punishment but dd7 still has to rebuild the project she ruined. good luck

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 2:35 pm

Just because you enforce a lot of calm doesn't mean all is well. The violence of both kids might be to get some kind of rise out of you.

Perhaps you are distant, not the nice kind of calm.

You also don't mention what elements their father is putting in.

I really hate this time-out thing. It's so mean and exclusionary.

And as for leaving the aggressor inside the house, while the defender is out in the cold, outside the walls, is really not so clever in my opinion. Unless I misunderstood the manoeuvres.

You focused on the one thing that bothers you: somebody stopped being calm.

You got distracted from the injustice of the sitting on the project. That probably didn't make a lot of noise in itself, so you lost your focus on it.

The 7 yr old wanted to get the 8 in trouble. She knew the best way to do that was to get her to make noise, the one thing mom absolutely can't stand. She figured that out just fine.

She even got RID of her sister for a while. A long while, as her sister was at various times out of the family center by being grounded to her room, and then, even out of the house, wow.

Stop with the calm and start being more into, available, and involved. these kids need to be taught, not just calmed.

As the older was increasingly ignored, marginalized and punished, of course she escalated.

I like your kids. They express themselves and they are clever.

A bit of law training is needed with the 7 yr old. That's normal. She may be feeling horribly overshadowed by her obviously hugely creative and intelligent sister. She herself may not be quite that spectacular, and she just got garden-variety jealous. At that age, it goes straight to direct action.

Try to make her feel clever too.

The hard part is they are so close in age that they can't have different roles; one being Baby and the other Big Girl.

Do NOT compare one to the other. Do NOT say, see how nicely the other does this or that, why can't YOU.

While you are praising the accomplishments of one, make sure to either do it when the other is a little busy, or, invite her to be impressed too, and MENTION something the OTHER one has done that is also nice.

But praise them and give them SEPARATE happy times. Separate. "All for me."

It will pass. Just don't lock people out. They break in.

Let it pass.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Mon, Apr 07 2014, 3:11 pm; edited 3 times in total

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 2:46 pm

A serious tantrum every two months is a lot of serious tantrums. Two months seems to be her limit of how long she can take something.

Look into what the something might be.

The older one may be stark raving bored. Very intelligent people can cut up quite rough if they are not allowed to express, explore, do, and not be especially calm. Her school may not be stimulating enough in addition to her home.

Give her more to do, work with, and talk to her more.

She seems to really need a ton of art supplies and books on architecture, geometry, nature, science and all that.

Give stuff to the younger one too. She too may also be royally under-stimulated and bored. She may envy her sister's ability to create her own world content such as the project. She may need it to come from the outside more. So give it to her.

I recommend lots of science, art, nature magazine subscriptions, whether aimed at children or at adults. Google "gifted children Torah" or email a home-schooling expert for sources that culturally appropriate. Look at those websites, google "Torah homeschooling" and look around for enrichment materials.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Mon, Apr 07 2014, 3:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

gold21

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 3:03 pm

Echoing what other posters said.

Your 8 year old was legitimately frustrated and punished too harshly. Your 7 year old pushed her buttons until she snapped. Can't say I blame her for snapping.

Your 7 year old was bored and unfairly antagonized your 8 year old. She needed something to do to keep busy and she needed to be punished for breaking your 8 year old's creation.

2 hours in a room is WAY too long of a punishment. Seriously. Just totally not age appropriate. Try 15 minutes, that's about right for that age range.

Locking out of the house- what gave you that idea? It just seems very unusual.... and not a good disciplinary tactic either.

ABC

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 4:20 pm

amother wrote:

That she is usually, in your opinion, so well behaved, but has these episodes from time to time (ie it's not a one-off) sounds to me like she feels repressed (lots of pent-up feelings) and then lets go. If she's always a bit of a tyrant, it something different, but given that you say she's usually so well behaved, this reaction is not in line at all with her usual behavior, and you need to get to the bottom of this - what is she really feeling? does she feel trapped? does she express herself? does she get enough attention? if she's the oldest does she get enough privileges? how is her relationship usually with dd7?

as other posters have said, dd7 should have been punished more for what she (repeatedly) did. but beyond that, where were you while this was happening? it sounds like dd7 was trying to get your attention.

ABC

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 4:24 pm

amother wrote:

It's also not normal to not react if your child intentionally smashes a window. That is extreme behavior and remaining so calm in the face of that is not modelling good behavior, it's modelling repression. I'd prefer a mother who shouts at me if I do something extreme and tells me how angry she is, than one who calmly (clinically) sends me to my room for 2 hours. 2 hours is waaaaaaaay too long as well.

amother

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 5:31 pm

my heart is breaking for your 8 year old. She is working hard on a project, this project at that time was her whole world, and then her sister breaks it.
Her sister broke her whole world. That's how it felt to her.

But ok, life happens, kids will break each others stuff, these things happen. Okay, I can understand that.

But why was 7 year old allowed to be in the position of breaking it AGAIN? After she broke it once, she should have been removed from the room, sent to her room, heck, SHE should have been the one to be sent out the house (NO ONE should be sent out the house EVER, but if someone was going to have to stand outside for a punishment, it should have been 7 year old)

Ok, so 7 year old breaks it again. Just *think* of the anger and frustration that 8 year old feels now. She is LIVID. she is FUMING. she jolly well should be!!!!

She sees that you do not share her anger and frustration. You are cool, calm and collected.
Now she feels even more betrayed, first that her sister was allowed to do this, and now her mother doesn't share her pain.
so she expresses her pain by lashing out to the other siblings. She wants to SHOW you how angry she is, because you clearly aren't showing her that you are angry on her behalf.

she doesn't see 7 year old getting punished for ruining her world. She is even angrier now.

Then you punish her?!? Why?!??! You should have taken her on your lap, hugged her tight, and cried with her that her project was ruined.
You should have YELLED at the 7 year old for doing what she did. sometimes yelling has a place and this is one of them. Show 8 year old that you are with her in her pain.

But you didn't.

You PUNISHED her. You pushed her away. So there she is, full of this anger, frustration and heartbreak over her project. Full of pain because her mother hasn't validated her pain. full of fear because she is locked out of the house.

of course she smashed a window.

I could cry for her.

and then she is put in her room for another 2 hours...

amother

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 5:44 pm

I am the previous imamother.

I just saw that you ended your post with 2 questions.

How do I teach her next time?
What did I do wrong?

What you did wrong was this. 7 year old sits on the project.
7 year old should have received an immediate punishment - there is no excuse for breaking someones project, too bad if she was bored.

7 year old sits of the project again.
Give 7 year old a bit of a shouting at - to show 8 year old that you will not stand for someone ruining her work. Show 8 year old that you are on her side. Show 7 year old that you are ANGRY with her.
Being cool and calm is out of place here.
Punish 7 year old properly. whatever and however - time out, she has to rebuild the project etc etc.

Immediately reach out to 8 year old as soon as the project was broken a second time. Pull her into a tight hug and TELL HER "I am so so sad for you! I am so angry for you! YOU WORKED SO HARD ON THAT!!!! IT'S NOT FAIR!! I am so upset! you poor sheyfele!" rub her back, stroke her hair, wipe her tears with your fingers. Let her be angry and sad TOGETHER WITH YOU.

I can PROMISE you that had you done that, she would never have bitten or hit anyone.

the poor child did not need any punishment. She need validation.

I think that when she is older and able to look back at this incident with adult eyes, she would tell you that it wasn't her annoying sister or the precious project that broke her heart. It was her mother who didn't validate how she was feeling.