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I am in culture shock



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amother


 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 6:30 am
I live iun Johannesburg, South Africa. Just before yom tov 100's of chassidim were bussed in from Zimbabwe, to be with their contreversial Rebbe, Rabbi Berland.

The only Chassidim JHB has is Chabad chassidim and now suddenly their is an influx of the real mcoy chassidim. I have seen them all over the Jewish neighbourhood. Men, women and children. And I must say, its a huge culture shock. Im used to seeing it in Eretz yisroel, but here it seems comletely out of place.

Truth be told, my heart breaks for them. I dont know whether their rebbe is guilty or innocent, although I do think he should go back to Israel to face the music. But these ppl have just been uprooted from their homes and comfort zones, right before the most stressful time of the year. My heart breaks. Some have no where to eat and sleep. The community has tried their best to help them but it must be so difficult to be in a strange country at this time of year.

I could be wrong and/or judgemental, I think they are good and warm people who are misguided.

Does anyone have any insight/
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grace413




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 6:53 am
Somehow my DLKZ is abandoning me here.

Maybe some wonderful Jo'burg residents could take advantage of this opportunity to guided these misguided people away from this man.

OP, I know you didn't mean it this way but calling these Chassidim "the real McCoy" is insulting (IMHO) to real Chassidim of any sect. These people must be brainwashed cult members, Hashem Yerachem.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 7:12 am
Here is something you probably knew but have forgotten in the excitement. You do it without thinking with new friendships, with dating.

People bond over things they share and have in common. Differences are for those they already trust.

Forget about the controversy. These are fellow Jews. Offer help, a friendly smile, a listening ear. Ask about kids or home, if you get a chance to converse.

Imagine if your grandfather were arrested and accused of something bad, and it was in all the papers. Would you want everyone whispering and ponting and asking you if you really believed in him? Or would you be going through enough inner turmoil that you would want people to either talk about anything but that, and leave you alone?
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amother


 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 7:19 am
Grace, you are right, I didn;t mean, the real mcoy, I meant, they LOOK like the real mcoy. We don't see chassidim like that at all here, I am really sorry if I offended anyone.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 7:31 am
Imasinger, that's exactly what I was saying, I didn't say much about the Rabbi. I'm just stating a fact, it is a culture shock. We still have been doing everything that is within our means to help them. Including greeting and talking to them. I saw a lady buy 3 teenage boys clothes for yt.

In saying that, I don't think we need to accept their Rebbe. He has been accuses of teRrible things and until he is proven innocent we can't protect him. The Chief Rabbi has take a stand against him! Doesn't take away from the fact that we need to do chessed with his followers.
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StripedFlower




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 7:48 am
grace413 wrote:
Somehow my DLKZ is abandoning me here.

Maybe some wonderful Jo'burg residents could take advantage of this opportunity to guided these misguided people away from this man.

OP, I know you didn't mean it this way but calling these Chassidim "the real McCoy" is insulting (IMHO) to real Chassidim of any sect. These people must be brainwashed cult members, Hashem Yerachem.


He's strange and unusual and nonconformist, but that doesn't mean they are brainwashed or a cult.

They are mostly balei teshuva, and they love him.

He is a talmid chacham and a good Jew. Just because he was accused of something doesn't make it true.

I do agree they're not real mccoy chassidim, but that doesn't mean they are bad people.

I heard the Joburg chief rabbi called upon the community not to give the chassidim a place to stay, and if that's true I'm shocked and disgusted. But I doubt it's true.
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StripedFlower




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 7:50 am
amother wrote:

In saying that, I don't think we need to accept their Rebbe. He has been accuses of teRrible things and until he is proven innocent we can't protect him. The Chief Rabbi has take a stand against him! Doesn't take away from the fact that we need to do chessed with his followers.


I beg your pardon? Guilty until proven innocent???
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amother


 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 8:03 am
Sorry, that is not what I meant.

What the chief rabbi is saying is that he must go back to Israel and sort out the charges against him. If he is innocent, then let him prove it. Unfortunately running away does not paint him in a positive light. I understand your points, and I dont believe that he is nescesarily guilty, but then he must have his day in court.

As a woman, it also speaks to me, because by defending the rabbi at all costs, the feelings of the victim are not taken into consideration. Zex crimes are the most difficult to speak out about, it brings shame and embarresment. I dont think we can therefore completely undermine the alleged victim.
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 9:54 am
Right now, it isn't about his guilt or innocence. It's about his breaking the law and fleeing the country and ALSO about his cynical exploitation of his followers. Helping his followers will just enable him to evade and avoid his responsibilities. He needs to come back and deal with these charges. Period. It's so unfortunate, but the harder it is for his followers in SA, the sooner they will come home and the sooner he will have to deal with this on his own, like an adult, without the cover of his followers..
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grace413




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 10:45 am
What 5*Mom said.

The following is from Wiki. I'm aware that Wiki is not the greatest source, but even so, running from country to country doesn't look good.

"After the police opened an investigation, Berland immediately fled Israel, and spent time in the United States, Italy, and Switzerland. He then left for Morocco, settling in Marrakesh.[7] Berland lived in Marrakesh for seven months, and was welcomed by the small Moroccan Jewish community. He intended to establish a kehilla in Marrakesh based on the Shuvu Banim yeshiva, and planned on building a community center, educational institutions, and apartments for his followers. Thousands of his followers began travelling to Marrakesh to celebrate holidays and commemorate events with him, and some took up residency there to stay with him. In November 2013, Berland and his students were ordered to leave Morocco after King Mohammed VI personally ordered their expulsion from the country. According to news reports, a Moroccan newspaper had published an article profiling the rabbi and mentioning the circumstances in which he fled Israel, and the king ordered Berland's expulsion after reading the article. Berland's followers claimed that the king was merely concerned for their safety, as they were Hasidic Jews living in a Muslim country.[6][8][9] Berland is thought to have left Morocco for Cairo, Egypt. He reportedly bought tickets for various destinations to confuse pursuers, considered between taking a flight to Zimbabwe or Venezuela, and in the end chose Zimbabwe. From there, he allegedly took a flight to Johannesburg, South Africa, where he was taken in by a relative.[10] Berland decided to settle in Zimbabwe. He lived in various upscale hotel rooms throughout Bulawayo, and led worship services for members of the small Zimbabwean Jewish community in a synagogue in the Bulawayo suburb of Khumalo. He was joined by some of his followers, and also hired two attorneys in Israel due to the possibility of being forced to return to Israel if his options ran out. On April 7, 2014, police raided the hotel room Berland was staying in, and found him with some followers from Israel. After it was established that his visitor's visa had expired, he was arrested and charged with remaining in Zimbabwe without a permit. He plead guilty before a magistrate judge, and was remanded to custody."
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studying_torah




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 1:58 pm
Bad enough he is on the run but why do all these followers need to uproot thenselves (possibly w family as well) and run after him all over?! What kind of life is this for any of those ppl?
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amother


 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 2:13 pm
op here, that is the issue. I know its non of my business, but interested to know if they were "forced" to come, or just out of allegiance to their rebbi. Because when I see the little children walking around, my heart breaks for them.

Does anyone know anything about the shuvu bonim chassidim?
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abound




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 2:37 pm
I do not know any of them personally. I do not believe they were forced to come. Many of his followers are BT Israeli (some from other countries) without much family support, he is their family, really everything to them. They really love him.
That being said, there are a lot of them that are not stable, or have criminal backgrounds. (ex. running after a rabbi with children or leaving wife and children to be with Rabbi)

ETA: The reason that many people point out that they are BT is because most of his chassidim, do not have a background for the way religion and rabbi vs. Chassid relationship works, and that is why many of them are still backing him and would run all over the world with him.

I thought it was a very poor community, where do they have the money to keep moving around like this???


Last edited by abound on Thu, Apr 17 2014, 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 2:39 pm
I don't know for sure but it's my guess that nobody was forced (except the children, of course). I think the adults all made their own choices. To leave their homes for a foreign country where they know no one and have nothing and would be at the mercy of kindhearted Jews. For no reason. Which is why, if I lived in SA right now, I might help some people get back to their homes if I could, but beyond that I would say, "I am truly sorry but I just cannot help you."
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 17 2014, 5:33 pm
He must be the only person ever to have been found living in zimbabwe without a permit.
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