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Guests spent the seder psychoanalyzing my overtired child
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Ima2NYM_LTR




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 9:03 am
I had 2 single guests for the first seder. Both have come before. As a side note, neither is religious.

My 9 year old, despite having a nap that day, was overtired and acting up here and there. I was trying to redirect his energies because he was not acting up, he was participating very well in the seder. My guests, though, decided that there was something wrong with him- and proceeded to discuss his so called 'medical condition', right in front of him, and when I told them they were upsetting him and to stop, they walked out right before Shulchan Aruch.

One guest (years parenting =0. medical degree=0), a cousin I grew up with, said at 3 separate times during the night that its not fair to the kids to start the seder so late, and if I insist on having it so late, I should do an earlier seder for the kids so they can experience the whole thing. He also recommended I take them to a park during the day so they can run around an just be kids instead of being cooped up inside all day while Im preparing. (I alter asked him if he was volunteering to take them to the park- because I had been a bit busy that day preparing the meal he was about to walk out on). He also said that every time he sees my son (2x a year- RH and Pesach), my son bursts into tears and that its not normal and he needed help. This was at 10PM. Side note- this same cousin used to be referred to as 'the maniac' as a child.

The other guest (years parenting =0. medical degree=0) started off by yelling at him to stop when he very accidentally stepped on her foot in a tight space. She then told him to stop interrupting, ie mouthing off, when he asked a very good question about the seder- after we explained the night was about kids asking questions. Later, when he was crying (again, 10 PM), she started talking about his behavior not being normal, had we given him some sort of medication he could have been having a reaction too, and why are we keeping our kids up so late. She insisted there was something seriously medically wrong with him and he needed medical attention- as he's sitting there listening to them saying this and crying because here here 2 adults he respects treating him like a broken piece or machinery. I tried to explain that discussing him like this in front of him was making the situation worse and to please stop- at which point she stormed out.

(For the record, I had been about to suggest he put on PJs because of his behavior- I hadnt been ignoring it)

So, after neighbor stormed out, cousins tarted to lecture me for a half hour on my parenting skills while my husband was in the bedroom with my son trying to explain to him there was nothing wrong with him.

After they both left and we got the kids calmed down, we actually had a pleasant rest of the seder. The kids stated up a bit longer- and acted fine.

And the second night- we had a different set of guests. My son participated, asked good questions, was polite and stayed up until the end.

I realized that perhaps it wasnt the child- perhaps it was the guests. Those 2 are no longer welcome at my house.
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Mrs.K




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 9:18 am
This is so incredibly upsetting!

You sound like a wonderful parent, and your son sounds entirely normal. Kudos to you for standing up for him. The only people in this story that sound off are your horrible guests. There is so much that's inappropriate in this story that I wouldn't know where to begin. They obviously know very little about children or parenting. (Talking about a child in front of him? Really?!) I'm sorry you had to experience this. Yuck.
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yo'ma




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 9:21 am
Ima2NYM_LTR wrote:
I realized that perhaps it wasnt the child- perhaps it was the guests. Those 2 are no longer welcome at my house.

Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
As if pesach is not stressful enough and you have guests stressing you out. Rolling Eyes
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shosh




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 9:48 am
My sympathies completely!!!

Some people really think they're great experts on things they know nothing about!!!! I'm glad your second Seder worked out better.
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morah




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 9:52 am
Giving you a shout out of support, because BTDT. The grandparents criticise because they've forgotten what it's like, the younger parents have what to say because they don't realize yet what's ahead, and the child-free are just the best with this. Your kids sound like normal, healthy children who act their age. Your guests sound like they need to get out more- to places other than bars.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 10:06 am
I'm sorry that sounds frustrating - passover is about kids & handing down the tradition - if they don't understand that - it's their issue

& I agree they make terrible guests - that shouldn't be allowed near children shock

personally I was busy psychoanalyzing my own children & thought I would rename the 4 children in the haggada with diagnoses

I decided instead to join them & have a fit of my own
[don't worry I drank some more wine & joined their happy-go-lucky nothing-matters-if-your-drunk attitude]

being in pjs means you can sing 'paroh in pajamas in the middle of the night - ay ay ay ay ay' Music
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MiracleMama




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 10:21 am
Glad you won't be letting the "diagnosticians" back into your home again. That was really obnoxious behavior.
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Bruria




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 2:07 pm
Wow. Your guests were so rude! I agree, do not invite them back, how dare they make your son feel bad, that is just plain mean! Especially on a yom tov! And it doesn't matter if your guests were religious or not, non religious people know rules of politeness too, so no excuse to them!
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Ima2NYM_LTR




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 2:17 pm
Bruria wrote:
Wow. Your guests were so rude! I agree, do not invite them back, how dare they make your son feel bad, that is just plain mean! Especially on a yom tov! And it doesn't matter if your guests were religious or not, non religious people know rules of politeness too, so no excuse to them!


for sure- I had specified their religious status only regarding their lack of understanding about why it's important for us to start 'late at night' etc
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 2:26 pm
Ewwww.

No, none of them can ever come back.

I would ease these relationships into the dustbin and end them. While that is happening, there must be no more contact with any of your children.

I guess you saw the Wicked Son. In person, and plural.
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Bruria




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 2:31 pm
Ima2NYM_LTR wrote:
for sure- I had specified their religious status only regarding their lack of understanding about why it's important for us to start 'late at night' etc
Got it! But even most non- religious people start late also! And your guests were totally not used to kids, I mean, any child is tired by the time it starts, no one can expect kids to behave perfectly when they are tired! And if they thought it was too much, they should have kept it in their own personal thoughts, they had no manners at all!
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 2:41 pm
ITA with Dolly and everyone else!

Also, remember the concept of midda keneged midda.

One of my most enjoyable hosting experiences came recently when a four-year-old behaved quite obnoxiously at my home. Why so enjoyable? Because her mother had frequently been a guest in our home during her single days, and she was always quite critical of my parenting -- and rather vocal about what she thought I was doing wrong.

I don't know if the mommy appreciated the irony, but it didn't matter.
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Ima2NYM_LTR




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 3:25 pm
Bruria wrote:
Got it! But even most non- religious people start late also! And your guests were totally not used to kids, I mean, any child is tired by the time it starts, no one can expect kids to behave perfectly when they are tired! And if they thought it was too much, they should have kept it in their own personal thoughts, they had no manners at all!



Well the one guest- the cousin- based his whole argument on:
"When we were kids we started much earlier, and even though we ended at 10, we were still tired. Your children must be even more tired. They are losing out on seeing the end of the seder because you insist on starting so late. I fondly remember the whole seder from our childhood and it would be nice if you gave your kids the same opportunity. You should start earlier, or have an earlier seder just for the kids."

At which point I gave a short, hysterical laugh and wondered where he would propose I find the time to do 2 seders a day.
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morah




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 4:52 pm
Ima2NYM_LTR wrote:
Well the one guest- the cousin- based his whole argument on:
"When we were kids we started much earlier, and even though we ended at 10, we were still tired. Your children must be even more tired. They are losing out on seeing the end of the seder because you insist on starting so late. I fondly remember the whole seder from our childhood and it would be nice if you gave your kids the same opportunity. You should start earlier, or have an earlier seder just for the kids."

At which point I gave a short, hysterical laugh and wondered where he would propose I find the time to do 2 seders a day.


It's so easy to remember how things were when we were kids, and so hard to realize which factors may have been different. Your Seders probably WEREN'T that late and you probably DID stay up to the end because Daylight Savings use to be the second Sunday in April- so many years Pesach fell out before the time change and when it was after, it was close enough that most people weren't fully adjusted and it didn't feel so late. Now, DST is a month earlier, so never again will there be early sedarim, and we are all well-adjusted by now.
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MiracleMama




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 5:02 pm
morah wrote:
Daylight Savings use to be the second Sunday in April- so many years Pesach fell out before the time change and when it was after, it was close enough that most people weren't fully adjusted and it didn't feel so late. Now, DST is a month earlier, so never again will there be early sedarim


Side tangent, but I really wish they would go back to the old way of dong DST or just get rid of it all-together. It really messes everything up.
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ValleyMom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 5:03 pm
GOOD GRIEF WOMAN--
Why do you have these people at your table??
REPEATEDLY!!?

They sound absolutely ungrateful, obnoxious and annoying.

AND...
They made your poor child cry??!

They don't deserve a seat at your table.
Ever.
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Eemaof3




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 5:27 pm
One of my brothers used to be very critical of all his nieces and nephews until he became a parent. We saw the change when his ds started to be more than a sweet little baby (though he is a fabulous child). Made my other brother and I feel much better.
HUGS!! And do not ever invite them over again!
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techiemom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 5:56 pm
I'm feeling so outraged for you right now! I'm glad that you were able to stand up and advocate for your child. And thankfully they walked out so you didn't have to deal with them any more. I hope the rest of your chag is peaceful!
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shlomitsmum




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 18 2014, 6:24 pm
I HATE child bullies ! so rude... and mean . HUGS to you op and kudos for not kicking them out .
They made your child cry too! oy vey ....I would have lost it and told them to just shut up embarrassed Exploding anger
It is a bracha they left IMO and unless they apologize they should never be invited again for their ungratefulness and dismal manners . Morons ....ALL kids react to changes in routine ,it is normal behaviour .
And EVEN if a child has a disability they should never be psychoanalyzed in their presence ,that is rude demeaning and cruel .

My seder was guest free Sad and meltdown central (we were not allowed to look her way or sing ,or touch the haggada she made... etc Rolling Eyes ) Honestly it was not going well...until my daughter discovered the "blue Juice" aka bartenura while we were distracted ! she had 1 cup and was a new child ..relaxed ,singing, washing ....she even found the afikoman LOL

I feel bad not having people over as I love to make great food but I simply cannot handle the comments I have gotten in the past from clueless people : both childless and those with less than 3 kids : are you sure she is autistic? maybe you are just too much of a pushover aka she is a brat (nope ,I'm pretty strict actually but still child centered )

Hugs OP and mazel tov! you were delivered from stupid people Smile use this teachable moment to teach your son how to be a nice guest so the pain he felt can be used for good.
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rainbow dash




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 19 2014, 7:08 pm
shlomitsmum wrote:
I HATE child bullies ! so rude... and mean . HUGS to you op and kudos for not kicking them out .
They made your child cry too! oy vey ....I would have lost it and told them to just shut up embarrassed Exploding anger
It is a bracha they left IMO and unless they apologize they should never be invited again for their ungratefulness and dismal manners . Morons ....ALL kids react to changes in routine ,it is normal behaviour .
And EVEN if a child has a disability they should never be psychoanalyzed in their presence ,that is rude demeaning and cruel .

My seder was guest free Sad and meltdown central (we were not allowed to look her way or sing ,or touch the haggada she made... etc Rolling Eyes ) Honestly it was not going well...until my daughter discovered the "blue Juice" aka bartenura while we were distracted ! she had 1 cup and was a new child ..relaxed ,singing, washing ....she even found the afikoman LOL

I feel bad not having people over as I love to make great food but I simply cannot handle the comments I have gotten in the past from clueless people : both childless and those with less than 3 kids : are you sure she is autistic? maybe you are just too much of a pushover aka she is a brat (nope ,I'm pretty strict actually but still child centered )

Hugs OP and mazel tov! you were delivered from stupid people Smile use this teachable moment to teach your son how to be a nice guest so the pain he felt can be used for good.


Omg I can't stop laughing. Me thinks I try that for myself tonight. Thanks.
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