Please help me, I'm so confused!

FranticFrummie

Wed, Apr 23 2014, 12:36 pm

I'm on my pilot trip in Israel right now. I'm having a hard time figuring out what community I want.

To avoid hurting anyone's feelings, I'll not name the cities.

Community A is charedi, and it's crowded, noisy, the streets are filthy, and the kids are wild and run hefker all over the place. There's lots of warm, loving people with lots of Torah learning going on, but everyone looks alike, and you get judged like crazy if you step one toe out of line.

Community B is more MO, but also crowded, dirty, and noisy. Less judgemental, but more "city" like and less warm.

Community C is on the beach, with an atmosphere like a resort in Hawaii. Gorgeous, full of cafes, shopping, spotlessly clean, traffic flows without a lot of honking, fabulous weather and new, clean buildings. Not very religious at ALL. Women go around in short shorts and tank tops, and people avoid DH like the plague because they think he's a Breslover who's going to ask them for money or try to "convert" them. Over all, I might as well stay in the US, considering the examples the girls set for DD.

The last community is Tzefat, which was my original plan, until I heard that there is no escaping the black mold problem there. My health CANNOT handle mold.

I'm in community C right now, and my health is fantastic. I could really see myself living here, but I'm not sure this is the right place for DH and DD, mostly because of how secular the majority of people are.

On the other hand, the more religious communities would hate me forever if they found out I have two little dogs. Community C has a dog park right next door to the apartment we're looking at, and everyone is super accepting. Then again, how comfortable can we be in a town where most of the people under 30 have tattoos and body piercings, and dress like bums?

Aaaaaaagh! No wonder Americans have such a hard time finding the right place to settle! Please help me sort out my head, before it explodes. We only have a week left on this trip, and a ton of decisions to make.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Apr 23 2014, 12:48 pm

Success10 wrote:

From your description, you sound like a very good fit for Tzefat. Are you sure about the mold problem? We actually know a bit about the city and the apartments there, and have never heard of this problem.

Tzfat still holds a big chunk of my heart. I looked around at apartment prices, and I wasn't super impressed. We need at least a 3 bedroom 2 bath, preferably 4 bedroom (not "room", but BEDroom). In the new construction areas, they are very expensive, and they prefer you to buy rather than rent.

There is nothing in the Old City or Artist Quarters over a 2 bedroom that is not for sale. The bed and breakfast industry is buying all of the apartments up and and using them for tourists. Either that, or the hotel industry rents the rooms to their workers and packs 8 or 9 guys into each room.

That leaves the Darom neighborhood, which I understand is pretty run down and not so nice these days. I could be wrong, that's just what I've heard. A friend of mine lived there for a year, and she hated it. That's saying a lot, because she lives in Beitar now.

Can you enlighten me a bit more about where I should be looking? From where we're staying now, I could take a bus over to Tzfat for the day and go exploring. I need to meet with schools and our NBN coordinator, too. So much info, so little time!

Success10

Wed, Apr 23 2014, 12:56 pm

DH and I own a small 2 bedroom apartment in the Darom neighborhood, which we rent to an adorable chassidish couple. No, it does not have the charm or beauty of the old city, but they are doing renovations on the outsides of the buildings, if I understand correctly. Pricewise, it's one of the cheapest frum cities in the country. That's why we bought there as an investment, it's all we could afford. The newer area, Kenaan, is more expensive and nicer looking, but also not so religious.

Other options might be Carmiel, there are more and more frum couples moving there, but I don't know how they would take to an outside the box Chareidi type. Also Yavne'el is a small town in the lower galillee, a small English speaking population, and every color and type of Jew you can imagine, a lot of chassidim there, I think Breslov, actually (not Nanach, the real deal). Very quiet and serene.

Your daughter's chinuch should be of utmost priority in choosing a community. I would be wary of option C.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Apr 23 2014, 12:58 pm

Success10 wrote:

Interesting because I know of two out of the box charedi (probably modern yeshivish in america) families that moved to carmiel and are settling in very well.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Apr 23 2014, 1:06 pm

Success10 wrote:

I agree with Liba. Beitar was really cleaned up under Mayor Pindrus. It's actually supposed to be one of the cleanest cities in Israel, if I recall correctly. Also the apartments are all newer. Beitar A could actually be an option for you, though possibly not your dogs....

Funny, last time I was in Beitar, I ran into a bunch of Sephardi teens who had a fairly big dog with them. We talked for a bit, and the first thing they said was "Where are you from? Are you American?" LOL

I guess dog = American over there. They were very nice kids.

Everyone else at the park was staring at me like "Why are you talking to THOSE people?" Rolling Eyes

Whatever.

Liba

Wed, Apr 23 2014, 1:07 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Sorry, that came out a lot worse than I meant. I'm very overwhelmed right now.

What I meant is that Beitar is more crowded and noisy than Darom, and she's a real introvert who likes her peace. No slam against Beitar at all. Her husband learns full time, and her kids are thriving there.

I take it you haven't been to Beitar. LOL

I have been to Tzfas, old city, new projects and it is way more overwhelming than where I am in Beiter - and Beitar is one of the cleanest and most accepting places I have ever lived.

FWIW My neighbors have a dog. I can't say it is appreciated, it is loud and keeps people up at night, but it is tolerated.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Apr 23 2014, 1:08 pm

Success10 wrote:

Do you know anyone in Darom I could talk to about finding a rental (like an agent) who is English or Yiddish speaking? Our Ivrit is fundamental at best.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Apr 23 2014, 1:10 pm

Success10 wrote:

Totally agree with the bolded! That's why I'm so nervous.

Do you mean Carmel (on the beach) or Karmiel (newish community south of Tzfat) or another city? I get them confused. I have friends in Karmiel.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Apr 23 2014, 1:11 pm

Liba wrote:

SacN

Wed, Apr 23 2014, 1:12 pm

I PMed you, but I wanted to add to it, and figured there might be more chance of you seeing this, and other's chiming in.

Have you thought about Rechovot? There is every kind of person here, a very nice anglo charedi shul with a lot of out of the box types (ranging from modern/out of town yeshivaish americans to charedi israelis), and a fair amount of chassidim (kretchnev, bresslov, chabad and vishnitz).

The more Charedi neighborhood is older than many parts of the city, but there are some brand new buildings, and there's no stigma to living more on the outskirts of the frummer neighborhood. Plus, in any building, you can always find a redone unit. There are definitely 3 and 4 bedroom apartments here for rent. And I think you could have a dog with no problem--I see lots of them here, and everyone seems okay with them (though I do doubt charedim have them).

FranticFrummie

Wed, Apr 23 2014, 1:15 pm

Liba wrote:

I've only been once, and I can honestly say that I have NOT seen every single street and neighborhood, so I'm hardly an expert.

No dogs should ever be loud and keep people awake at night, regardless of where you live. That's simply unacceptable. If you want a loud dog, go live on a farm somewhere. I used to own a loud dog, and when she couldn't be trained to keep quiet, I took her to the vet and had her vocal cords snipped. It was totally painless, and everyone was much happier afterwards. Being a good neighbor is a priority!

FranticFrummie

Wed, Apr 23 2014, 1:21 pm

SacN wrote:

Rechovot seems sort of "big city-ish", and I'm hoping for something more small and closer to nature. I don't need to be near any sort of downtown or industrial areas. Part of me wants to go live on a yishuv and milk goats!