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Would you ask your SIL to pitch in more?
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amother


 

Post Sat, May 03 2014, 9:30 pm
DH is very close with his youngest sister and she goes to school very close to us, so she spends a lot of time at our place. We have an open door policy with her- she can ask, even on a Friday morning, we will probably say yes unless we really, really can't. I am for the most part ok with it as we get along, I enjoy having her, and I can be comfortable and relaxed in a way I can't be with other guests- I don't have to be tznius just to step out of my room, I don't feel compelled to cook super fancy, I don't need my home to spotless if it's just her. That said, there is still some work involved in having her over- the spare room must be set up (not so simple, as it usually serves as our storage space), I do need to make more food, the kids get excited and can get thrown off, and she's a bit of a slob. She never helps with anything- not setting up her room, or serving/clearing, and she leaves a mess behind. I told DH I want to ask her to help out, and he said, no way, she needs to feel at home here. I say, exactly, she IS at home her, so she should be expected to pitch in a little, as one does at home. Am I right? And if I am, how do I bring it up nicely/what is reasonable to ask?
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rising hero




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, May 03 2014, 9:41 pm
Of course you can and you should! If she's old enough to be in school away from home then she's old enough to lend a hand. She should do this on her own but not everyone is perfect in every way...
If you don't want to overwork her, let her help you with simple stuff like serving or bringing in the dirty dishes etc.
You don't have to bring it up. Just yell from the kitchen "Rochel, can you please help me serve the soup?"
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b from nj




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, May 03 2014, 9:46 pm
Definitely feel free to ask for some help. It's not fair for you to have to do all the work. A little hakaras hatov & menshlichkeit on her part would go a long way!!
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tryinghard




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, May 03 2014, 10:39 pm
I agree. Don't make a big deal about it. Just ask when you need help or see something that needs doing. AS you do this more often, she will hopefully get the hint that she should do this on her own. Then after a few times where you request and she helps, you can casually mention, "You know Shprintzy, it's so great when you come over, we love having you around, especially since we feel so close with you! And since you are always so willing to lend a hand when you come, it never feels like extra work, either, we just get to enjoy your company!"

Last edited by tryinghard on Sun, May 04 2014, 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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shirachadasha




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 12:12 am
I agree with the previous posters. You don't have to sit her down for a formal talk about privileges and responsibilities. Instead say "I didn't get a chance to make your bed so please help yourself to linen from the closet".
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lavender_dew




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 7:17 am
You absolutely need to speak with her. Is she not required to help as much at her mother's house? Please do not let the situation continue because perhaps she really doesn't understand she's making you work harder, but you'll continue to do so unless you say something.

A good friend of mine who has frequent guests on Shabbos always leaves the guest room clean, but leaves linens, etc. sitting on the bed. She says, "If you're staying at my house this often, you're practically family, and that means you can make your own bed." She also expects the guest to remove the linens before they leave. Pretty fair if she's hosting and cooking and doing all the work for Shabbos, IMO.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 7:44 am
Ask her. It's a toive to show her how a family works and that she'll be allowed to ask for help, too.
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amother


 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 7:58 am
Op here- thanks, I was pretty sure I was right :-) Now how do I deal with dh? He really doesn't want me to ask anything of her...
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Never give up




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 9:15 am
If she is not used to help out at home, she will feel that she is not at home, I would leave her alone and not ask her anything
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Rutabaga




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 9:17 am
How old is the SIL?
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tryinghard




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 9:22 am
amother wrote:
Op here- thanks, I was pretty sure I was right :-) Now how do I deal with dh? He really doesn't want me to ask anything of her...


I wouldn't. Try not to ask her too often in front of him, but if he sees her still being made to feel at home, and it's less work for you, he'll get over it.
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Abby2




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 9:29 am
I think you should explain to dh that you are actually doing her a disservice by NOT telling her. What you expect of her is important to know. You know her and her good qualities, but if she stays at someone else and behaves in this fashion, it can leave a bad impression.

Tell your dh that your are not trying to be mean but rather being mechanech her. In the long run I am sure that your dh and sil will appreciate it.
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MiracleMama




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 9:35 am
I'd start small. Next time she comes over have her "keep you company" while you make up her room. Then say, "Great, now you know how to make this room for next time you come over. That will be such a big help to me. I'm sure you don't mind, right?"
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 10:03 am
while I think it nice to help ... you certainly don't want to push her away with demands

the one thing she certainly should help with is making up her room ... both before and after her stay

the biggest turn-off my daughter had was when she was staying with someone and asked to put in a certain amount of hours of work toward helping them out ... why was it a turn-off ? because she already helped bathe the kids, read them stories, played with them, helped clean up whenever anything was needed ... and it felt more like an insult - as if they hadn't noticed any of the good things she was doing - just because she wanted to pitch in - but now they needed to clock in her work ~ gosharuni Confused
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 10:06 am
It is really hard to help if you don't know what is actually helpful. Sometimes when people help, the receiver doesn't feel like they were helped. Sometimes people do ask to help and are sent the message that accepting the help is a burden.

I've read a lot of topics where I just keep thinking, why not just be direct and say I need x, y, or z?

I don't think you need to have a talk or anything like that. Just access what would be most helpful to you and ask for assistance on that. It might change from week to week or it might be something consistent.

For family sedarim, after some negative feedback where I felt particularly frustrated because I had tried to ask where I could help and was given no direction and was even told just keep so and so busy so I thought I was helping, I saw a task that was one that no one really wanted to do and I took it over as my own and that is what I have been doing since then. I'm fairly certain I have still been pegged as not helping enough, but it is really hard to see someone else's need if they don't state their needs.

I think with kosher kitchens and everyone having a different set up, it is really hard to help without the tutorial. I'd suggest figuring out what need is the most pressing and delegating it and then go from there.
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Butterfly




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 10:29 am
Never give up wrote:
If she is not used to help out at home, she will feel that she is not at home, I would leave her alone and not ask her anything

I care to disagree.

In case she's not privileged to receive the proper chinuch at home it's high time that she educate herself with some descent behavior skills elsewhere.
It can only serve to her advantage, especially for her future... and OP can help her get there somewhat...

Chances are that eventually she might be sharing a room elsewhere with others who will surely expect her to contribute with the cleaning chores and other things that need to be taken care of. Most likely it will be very difficult for her to handle the least of responsibilities if she hasn't practiced any in the past..

Same goes when she will eventually get married imy'H.

In all seriousness she will one day be grateful to you OP for everything you have taught her. If you only will...
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amother


 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 10:41 am
SRS wrote:
It is really hard to help if you don't know what is actually helpful. Sometimes when people help, the receiver doesn't feel like they were helped. Sometimes people do ask to help and are sent the message that accepting the help is a burden.

I've read a lot of topics where I just keep thinking, why not just be direct and say I need x, y, or z?

I don't think you need to have a talk or anything like that. Just access what would be most helpful to you and ask for assistance on that. It might change from week to week or it might be something consistent.

For family sedarim, after some negative feedback where I felt particularly frustrated because I had tried to ask where I could help and was given no direction and was even told just keep so and so busy so I thought I was helping, I saw a task that was one that no one really wanted to do and I took it over as my own and that is what I have been doing since then. I'm fairly certain I have still been pegged as not helping enough, but it is really hard to see someone else's need if they don't state their needs.

I think with kosher kitchens and everyone having a different set up, it is really hard to help without the tutorial. I'd suggest figuring out what need is the most pressing and delegating it and then go from there.


This reminds me of my in-laws. I always ask what I can do to help and they always say nothing, everything is taken care of. When there's something obvious like clearing off or helping bring dishes to the table, or assisting someone else who started setting the table, I do that without asking. Then on pesach my FIL made a big fuss at the table about making a schedule for me to wash the dishes because it's only fair if I do my share. He singled me out as not helping enough and it was extremely humiliating and unfair.
That was off topic for op, sorry.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 12:22 pm
amother wrote:
This reminds me of my in-laws. I always ask what I can do to help and they always say nothing, everything is taken care of. When there's something obvious like clearing off or helping bring dishes to the table, or assisting someone else who started setting the table, I do that without asking. Then on pesach my FIL made a big fuss at the table about making a schedule for me to wash the dishes because it's only fair if I do my share. He singled me out as not helping enough and it was extremely humiliating and unfair.
That was off topic for op, sorry.


Must be an in-law thing. Hopefully we can remember this when we are in-laws. I think it is part of a bigger issue where people want to pat themselves on the back by being the martyr. They don't want to take the help and refuse to delegate because they want to declare that they are the most dedicated, hardest working, family hero.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 12:42 pm
There are smooth, slick ways to get help without defining it with a big capital letter H.

Little sweet remarks such as "would you dry if I wash the dishes? Then we can spend some time together! There's stuff I want to tell you!" or "would you help me carry this? Or maybe get that other thing?" or "are there any glasses in the other room?" said while you are visibly getting the ones in this room. Or "could you distract the toddler for a minute? I need to go do xyz" then don't take too long.

In short, you have to be subtle. They must never catch you at it. It must always be a joint endeavor, never "you: do this" but "we do this".

Have an eye for which tasks suit the personality and character of the person you are getting to do things. A gregarious type who isn't neat should distract the toddler. A fusspot who isn't very warm should collect used glasses and dry dishes and put them away. A restless type should help clear the table so she doesn't have to sit and make conversation and fidget. Then, steer the people toward tasks suit them. Think it out in advance.

If you will smile and smile, and thank, and position it all as Participating, a privilege, and being in the Inner Circle who is entrusted with important missions, it gets done and no one feeling picked on.

A prince does not mind holding the horse of another prince. As they are both equal and both royal, it is just being a brother, warm and cozy. Treat people like royals. We are all royals. Do them honor, and serve them. That will be the example they follow.
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black and white




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 04 2014, 1:11 pm
Good advice, Dolly
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