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Going to shul on shabbos
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 2:15 pm
MaBelleVie wrote:
Some women feel a lot more connected to God when davening quietly in the corner of the living room than they ever will at shul. Some women find spirituality in going around the corner to spend the morning chatting with grandma. Some women are elevated by snuggling with kids on the couch and discussing the parsha. There are so many ways to attain the holiness of shabbos.


hooray ...
and if you daven in a corner of the living room I imagine you don't hear the torah layning ...

you could take grandma to shul

and you could snuggle on the couch reading parsha so many times during the day - rather than when shul is in session

you're missing my point ... the main one where people sleep late and do the opposite of sanctifying shabbos - not caring about doing anything to elevate it ...
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 2:16 pm
I hardly ever go. I don't like the dark stairs in my building, and when I have a non walking child, or a walking one can't get why paci can't be brought etc... what for? they won't behave anyway.

Our foremothers did NOT go weekly. In many groups they went a couple times a year. If I had the additional pressure of minyan even weekly, and this weekly duty was davka on shabbes, I would crack.

When I went sometimes, as a young girl, it happened that I had the ezras nashim allll for me Smile
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MiracleMama




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 2:24 pm
greenfire wrote:


you're missing my point ... the main one where people sleep late and do the opposite of sanctifying shabbos - not caring about doing anything to elevate it ...


Your opinion. Not fact. And very judgmental.
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 2:31 pm
Aright. I surrender.
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 2:34 pm
There's nothing that bother me more than little kids who make noise in shul!

I understand that mom really really wants to come and daven... but it just isn't fair to bring little kids (Under age 10) who make noise! I'm not even talking about a ruckus, just a little noise!
I think it's disrespectful to G-d (especially when mom is shhh-ing her kids during kaddish or Torah reading!) as well as the other women in shul.

As for women with teens/without children/older women, great, please join me in shul! (If all of your food is ready etc.- I know a lot of women need to prepare for the Shabbos lunch meal)
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November




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 2:39 pm
I love being in Shul on shabbos morning. I grew up going to Shul and enjoying the minyan, the davening, the Torah reading, etc. Not everyone has had that experience, and I can see why not every woman would feel connected to going to Shul on shabbos morning. My DD 14 sleeps late on shabbos morning and as much as I wish she would want to be sitting in Shul with me, she doesn't have that connection and she gets up early for school 6 days a week so I don't bother her.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 2:58 pm
MiracleMama wrote:
Your opinion. Not fact. And very judgmental.


fine - I'll go to the bar & watch tv instead Rolling Eyes
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freidasima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 3:06 pm
I grew up in america going to shul in a tiny kehilla where everyone knew everyone and we were like one big family. Then I moved to EY where there are few kehillas of that kind and certainly no feeling of community, at least when I moved here, and certainly not in the city. Since then I feel no connection at all to shul and I never go except on yuntif and RH/YK and there were decades literally when I had babies that the only time I stepped foot in shul was for kol nidre or shofar.

Never missed it. I don't find shul to be a connection to the ribono shel olam. That I do better in my living room.

My avodas hashem is not going to shul. I am not counted for a minyan nor do I want to be. When I had to say kaddish for my mother for the first three days until we could arrange for a yeshiva to say it, (she died Friday) I went three times a day, and I was considered very very very strange in our kehilla, but being who I am and more than that being who my dh is (and b"h with two live parents so he couldn't say kaddish for my mother).

Men go to shul. Women prepare the house for kiddush so that when the men and boys come home they have a table ready to make kiddush over. That doesn't stop me from davening, but when I can, what I can. Besides, I talk to the ribono shel olam all day long, every day.

And Green, the chiyuv is not to go to shul on shabbos but to refrain from melocho and to rest. In that we emulate Hashem and what he did on Shabbos. Bayom Hashevii shovas veyinofash. Stopping work and relaxing...and I do that best on the sofa with a magazine to tell you the truth..
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grace413




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 3:10 pm
I love going to shul Shabbat morning. I've done it ever since I was a child, missing only the years when I had small children. And I did miss going then, even though I knew my obligation to my children overrode being in shul - and after years of shushing noisy kids, I certainly wasn't going to let mine disturb other people's davening.

I find it easier to concentrate on davening in shul - there are too many distractions at home. I also enjoy hearing the Torah layning and Haftarah, and here in EY we also have Birkat Kohanim.

I think a lot of it is cultural - I was brought up that going to shul was an integral part of Shabbat but many women come from circles where it's not emphasized.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 3:12 pm
allthingsblue wrote:
There's nothing that bother me more than little kids who make noise in shul!

I understand that mom really really wants to come and daven... but it just isn't fair to bring little kids (Under age 10) who make noise! I'm not even talking about a ruckus, just a little noise!
I think it's disrespectful to G-d (especially when mom is shhh-ing her kids during kaddish or Torah reading!) as well as the other women in shul.

As for women with teens/without children/older women, great, please join me in shul! (If all of your food is ready etc.- I know a lot of women need to prepare for the Shabbos lunch meal)


[okay I wrote a whole post & then the hailing thundering storm - turned off the electric - where was I ? Scratching Head ]

I'm not talking about moms going for themselves ... I'm talking about moms bringing their children and teaching them the value & beauty of shul ... sitting them next to them & having them daven what they do in school or brochas & shema ... pointing in the chumash & following the parsha & watching them do hagbah & gelilah ... not letting them run around making a ruckus

as for women needed to prepare the lunch ... everyone comes home & prepares it together ... it's like a woman is the slave - should she stay in the kitchen & serve too & never sit down & eat with the family ?!?!?!
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freidasima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 3:23 pm
What is this "preparing lunch together" business?
Maybe in america, but here, my dh gets up on shabbos at 5:30 AM to learn, then he goes to shul and gives daf yomi and then shul begins at 7 AM until 8:30 and he is on an empty stomach that whole time.

I want there to be a fully set breakfast table so that the minute he walks in that door (with the boys if they are here for shabbos) they can just open the wine or grape juice and make kiddush and have a full breakfast! I've been up since maybe 7:30-8, and relaxing and had something to drink...and yes I truly believe it is a wife's responsibilty as she doesn't have to go to minyan, if she is home, to have the table ready unless she is sick or something. Division of labor. That's why women have no chiyuv to go to shul or to do a full davening other than saying one line of shma sometime during the daytime, if we are talking halocho.

As for taking your kids to shul, here it's a free for all with kids running around all the time. The kids dont learn anything in shul other than how to make noise and eat all day long running around with food. I never took my kids, the boys went with dh but the girls? Only when they were old enough to go with friends from Bnai Akiva other than for shofar with me as soon as they were out of diapers.

Shuls in EY are not conducive to good behavior among children, at least those I know of. Kids often become vilde chayes in shul, no one stops them and they make a ruckus. No beauty of shul here, just balagan.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 3:41 pm
freidasima ~ I'm sure you can get dolly welsh to back you up ... not I
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 3:56 pm
Where I live most women between the ages of 20 and 40 have babies
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 4:06 pm
In a certain shul, they asked dh to stop coming with ds because he makes noise (a very Yekke type shul, only North african, hamevin yavin Wink ). DH said either he goes with ds or he goes somewhere else because ds is in a clingy phase and turns the whole house upside down if dh leaves LOL. The rav said in such case, you should even stay at home !
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busydev




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 4:10 pm
Ruchel wrote:
In a certain shul, they asked dh to stop coming with ds because he makes noise (a very Yekke type shul, only North african, hamevin yavin Wink ). DH said either he goes with ds or he goes somewhere else because ds is in a clingy phase and turns the whole house upside down if dh leaves LOL. The rav said in such case, you should even stay at home !


wow our sons are right around the same age!! cant imagine my son behaving in shul. tho I hear you on the turning the house upside down part. LOL

________
dh wont take any kids to shul until they can sit quietly the whole time.
we dont have an eruv so im stuck at home.
we also dont think there is a point in taking kids that will run around. shul is not a place to run around, its a place to daven and until a child is old enough and mature enough to understand, they do not belong there except for simchas torah.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 4:25 pm
Ruchel wrote:
In a certain shul, they asked dh to stop coming with ds because he makes noise (a very Yekke type shul, only North african, hamevin yavin Wink ). DH said either he goes with ds or he goes somewhere else because ds is in a clingy phase and turns the whole house upside down if dh leaves LOL. The rav said in such case, you should even stay at home !


I agree with your rav ...
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Kitten




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 5:09 pm
I love going to shul. I know some other people are like that. I have seen ladies coming to daven when everybody already had finished, because it's just nice to be there. After getting married, I enjoyed it even more because I knew that when I would have a baby, I would stay home to take care of my child.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 5:10 pm
eema of 3 wrote:
Women don't have an obligation to daven the same way that men do. Personally, I don't really feel any spiritual connection when davening. I find myself more connected when I use my own words in my own time to daven for my own things. I enjoy spending my day home with my kids, even though they make drive me insane sometimes :-) THAT is my spiritual connection. And if I can sleep a little later on shabbos, why shouldn't I? Trust me, if minyan was later, I guarantee you many many many men would be sleeping in too.


Whatever works for you.
Now that my baby's a teenager, I can go. And I've been going for a few years.
I don't think I'd be as motivated to go through the parsha on my own. And I like saying Modim d'rabbanan, the second Yekum Purkan and mishebairach. Kedusha and Kaddish are also a nice perk.
This is what floats my boat.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 5:29 pm
I can't believe how judgmental and ABLIST the origin of this thread is. Honestly, I'm not even sure where to start. Way to go, shaming parents who have challenges. Real classy. Seriously, who are you to tell other women how to connect with Hashem? What's it to you?

Not all shuls have child care. Even fewer have special needs child care. Not all children can stop from wiggling, flapping, squeaking, whispering, fidgeting or otherwise bothering the adults. Not all children can walk to shul without having a meltdown of some kind, laying on the pavement and refusing to move. Not all children will ever be able to walk at all.

In my shul, we have a lovely seudah sleshit, with a d'var Torah then mariv and havdalah. That's about as much as DD can handle, it's not early in the morning, and the atmosphere is still holy, but more laid back.

Motherhood is hard enough. We don't need extra guilt about whether or not we're getting up early to go to shul. We're all doing out best!
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 14 2014, 5:51 pm
many of you are sounding a little frazzled ... the reality is that I never put anybody down ... there are always exceptions to anything anybody says or even does

I simply find that in the jewish velt people are always expecting so much of their husbands and sons - but not so much for their daughters or themselves

my pet peeve is not to people who are otherwise busy / unable / distracted with special needs in life ...

obviously we all have our strong points in life & what might be mine - might not be yours ... also people are aware of their limitations and that is good

it is to those who are able and ironically preachy & always holier than thou - yet don't get out of bed shabbos morning and go to shul or teach their daughters to do the same -

I believe it's part & parcel of jewish upbringing when the ability is there ... we don't just go to shul to hear parshas zochor or on rosh hashana to ask forgiveness ... people go to church wearing their sunday best - how do we as jews differ ourselves from everyday life ... and why does this concept seem alien to the majority ... again as we say in kiddush shabbos day ... because for 6 days hashem made the world - the heavens & the earth and all that is in them ... therefore we bless the shabbos day & make it holy
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