going to shul on shabbos

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Judaism

Going to shul on shabbos

Previous 1 2 3 4 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

greenfire

Wed, May 14 2014, 2:52 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

In my shul, we have a lovely seudah sleshit, with a d'var Torah then mariv and havdalah. That's about as much as DD can handle, it's not early in the morning, and the atmosphere is still holy, but more laid back.

I think that is loverly and you are giving her something that is holy on her level and at a time that is conducive to your going to shul.

Kitten

Wed, May 14 2014, 3:07 pm

I totally agree with Greenfire. This thread is not about staying home because you need to. If you do, it is a big mitzva. It's more about doing shabbosdig things, whatever they may be for you, and not just sleeping the whole day, which, btw, is also a mitzva if you are completely exhausted. That's how I understood it. Sleeping on Shabbos can bring so much kedusha, but it's different from being plain lazy.

penguin

Wed, May 14 2014, 3:35 pm

I've seen in seforim that the women agitating for more of a role in the synagogue are misunderstanding Judaism, because it's really more about the family and mitzvos done there than about the public role.

In some communities the shuls are not so women-friendly (little shteiblach with a tiny room for women where they can barely hear) and few women attend, not sure which is cause and which is effect!

However, also because many women are home with little ones, as they should be (meaning, should be home IF they have little ones) they are not available to take the older daughters to shul and teach them to enjoy it. If it's really important to them, they might switch off with a neighbor, one watching the little ones and one taking the big ones and teaching them how/what to daven. I did that with a neighbor for RH some years.

So, many women are honoring Shabbos by making their DH & children's favorite foods, perhaps preparing games and stories about the parsha, etc., having the house clean & beautiful for Shabbos. And then are too tired to move!

Many are learning the parsha & listening to shiurim. Many like to daven at home where they can sing!

There was a tekufah when we lived in a place where I connected with the shul and enjoyed going, and my older daughter did not mind babysitting. Now I am in a place where I am just too tired to get up (and the shul I would want to attend has some serious deterrents, comfort-wise), but when I do (bec. I need to be at a particular simcha) I really do enjoy it. So I am going to think about that, Greenie, and I will let you know if I manage!

HT217

Wed, May 14 2014, 4:08 pm

I like going to shul for social events, but I honestly daven much better on my own. Perhaps it is just because I am not in the habit of going, but I am distracted easily in shul. I feel like they speed through some of the parts that I like to take my time with and I end up having much less kavannah than when I daven alone.

I love shabbat morning for being able to take my time with my tefillot and really get into it. I accomplish this better on my own. The reason women are not obligated to go to shul is not ONLY because of our responsibilities to our families, but also because we connect differently with each other and with HKB'H. Davening with a minyan is not necessarily the best way for all of us.

ElTam

Wed, May 14 2014, 8:20 pm

I don't understand the point of this post. Why do you care what yenem are doing? Is it hurting you in some way? Why are you ranting about something that has nothing to do with you?

But to answer your question, I get up every morning of the week at 7 a.m., get my kids up, help them get ready, take them to school and go straight to work. On Sunday I also have to get them up and to school and run errands. I am thankful to HaShem that I can sleep in a bit on Shabbos. It makes me love Shabbos. It helps me be a better Ima. It helps me manage my life.

I make sure to set up Shabbos party for my kids before I go to bed Friday night. They get up early and have a nice time together. And then we go to shul in time for musaf or kiddush or we daven at home.

If you view that as not respecting HaShem, that's 100% your problem. I'm only worried about what HaShem thinks about my avodah. But I found this post very judgmental and offensive.

thankyou

Thu, May 15 2014, 1:03 am

How much more do you want women to do?!
In the past we had children and took care of household, these days we also work out of the home to bring money and now you want us to also go to minyan?
Please allow women to sleep late on shabbos morning and be lazy (I wish my kids would let me!) and don't judge. We really have quite enough on our plates as it is. Even the ones with older children (who come for shabbos with their kids...).
(And did I mention- women today go to tehilim, hear shiurim, go to dinners for different orginazations, simchas andwhat not, learn with our DC for school,do their projects for school, go to PTA, go to MIKVAH, and so on... Thank gd shul isn't mendatory and we get to rest a bit on shabbos!).

r_ch

Thu, May 15 2014, 2:32 am

The priority of shabos is still davening the same amount as you daven on a daily basis. I do go mostly but even if I don't, I daven the whole programme at home.

I always meant to ask here but kept forgetting. So I'll hijack a little, do you mind? Smile

What I don't get is this hurried female mass catch-up on Shacharis while the others are already at Musaf. Why not upon rising? Why not home?

And another thing I don't understand but have no pretext to ask, is Seifer Tehillim lying next to the Siddur during the hurried mass catch-up. What do they (you) mean to say by it if they hardly have time to daven the necessary part?

Iymnok

Thu, May 15 2014, 2:47 am

I used to love going to sjul from beginning to end. Then I had kids. The only time I can go to shul for reasonable amount of time is Rosh Hashana. DH davens neitz, finishing in time for shofar. I bring the kids to hear, he takes them home and I stay for Mussaf.
A couple years ago I realized that I don't have the patience to stay in shul- usually I daven when I could squeeze it in, in shul I have to wait for the chazzan.
IY"H in a few years I'll enjoy it again

watergirl

Thu, May 15 2014, 3:59 am

I agree with Greenfire. When I lived in other cities, there was gevaldig childcare starting at 6 weeks of age. The entire community was at shul. I am not exaggerating. I found that the farther out in the boonies I was, the earlier the womens section would fill up. Now I live in a densely populated jewish city, one where no one lacks for anything when it comes to shul choices, grocery stores, restaurants, and more, there is no longer such thing as childcare at shul and women never go until it's time for kiddush. All of a sudden women have the need to stay home. Set the table and make their salads before going to shul. As if that was impossible when I lived out of town. The shuls in my neighborhood have no tolerance for children and shabbos groups are a totally foreign concept. My daughter and I used to get to shul nefore Barechu on shabbos when she was 4. Shed happily skip off to groups and I got to daven. Now she is older and has no memory of that, and doesnt even want to go for rosh hashana. She thinks that women dont go to shul. Theres something wrong here.

Ruchel

Thu, May 15 2014, 5:48 am

Why is there something wrong? Yes, in many groups, women go to shul a couples times a year.

Quote:

(And did I mention- women today go to tehilim, hear shiurim, go to dinners for different orginazations, simchas andwhat not, learn with our DC for school,do their projects for school, go to PTA, go to MIKVAH, and so on... Thank gd shul isn't mendatory and we get to rest a bit on shabbos!).

thumbs up! and I don't even do most of these things, but I'm exhausted just reading them Wink

PinkFridge

Thu, May 15 2014, 6:12 am

Iymnok wrote:

Yes, I was really worried about that when I started going to shul again.
I'll tell my story and see what OP and others make of it.
When I was younger a friend picked me up on the way to shul and we walked together. My mother didn't go. She was a very private person. In fact, I think she even skipped Yizkor in shul because there were so many relatives and she didn't want to feel like anyone was watching.
The shul situation in seminary was awesome. (OK, I'll possibly out myself. Breuers.)

Fast forward quite a few years. I didn't start going to shul again till just a few years ago. Our shuls don't have babysitting. No complaint about that, and not just because we didn't use the eruv. And I did NOT believe in having my kids babysit. ONLY for Yizkor and maybe a little bit after that. These are THEIR years to daven in shul if they wish. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Our kids didn't go to shul until they were good and ready. It meant our boys were fairly old, and our girls if interested to. But once they did, they were really with the program. My girls like to sleep in but boy, do they daven. Beautifully. They go on Shabbos Mevarchim, yom tov, yamim noraim. I'm very grateful to the beautiful shuls we've gone to during the yamim noraim, they have such powerful feelings for the tefillos.

Anyway, that about sums it up for chez Fridge.

justmarried

Thu, May 15 2014, 6:27 am

I'm just wondering if all of your communities have an erev so that you can carry on shabbos. If not, many people with young children cannot go to shul on shabbos unless they live really close by.

My community does have an erev but many people don't hold by it. Even a 10 minute walk can be hard for a 3 year old. (At least mine)

BatZion

Thu, May 15 2014, 6:54 am

as far as I'm concerned- why don't we all worry a little less about why and how other people serve H' and a little more about ourselves and the way we serve H'?!

personally, I much prefer to go to the park near our house early on Shabbat morning when there is no-one there and truly get into my davening than going to shul and eyeing up every lady who walks in to see what she's wearing, thinking about a billion unrelated things and finding it too hard to stay there the entire time- and I grew up going to shul every single week. Shul isn't doing it for me at this stage- perhaps at a later stage that'll change perhaps not.

My main point is that I found the tone of this thread quite offensive and feel that once again we'd do better off working on ourselves instead of judging other peoples' ways of connecting to H'....to each their own cheshbon nefesh with H'....

Ruchel

Thu, May 15 2014, 7:30 am

I went to shul on Kippur, bringing dd (then 6), and she was bored rather quickly. The women there were almost all adults, or big teens, and not so numerous. She ended up asking me to leave so I couldn't even concentrate on listening. I don't want to force her to do something she is not obligated in my or dh minhag. I did want to show her "Kippur at shul". It was also very hard for me to stand, as I was pregnant, but I wasn't showing yet so I felt so bad the only one sitting :/
There are many reasons Smile

elisabeth

Thu, May 15 2014, 8:13 am

Honestly, I think what our kids will remember at the day is what our ATTITUDE to Shabbos was. Did we enjoy it? Were we happy, relaxed and excited for it? Or did we run around, stressed out, feeling resentful and overburdened?

As a mother of young children, life is extremely taxing. There are so many "musts" and "shoulds" and not nearly enough time. When I take time to myself Shabbos morning (yes, to drink my coffee and read a magazine!) it gives me enthusiasm and energy for the rest of the day. Once I've had that rest time, I can care for my kids, serve the meal, welcome guests who stop by home, etc, with joy. And in my view, living Shabbos with joy cannot be underestimated, for our families or for Hashem.

greenhelm

Thu, May 15 2014, 10:16 am

I hated going to shul on shabbat as a child. I didn't have any friends there (all my friends lived in a different neighborhood) and as a BT, I always felt conspicuous and looked down upon.

I wanted things to be different for my kids - they live near their friends and there is lots of youth programming at our shul. They love going because it's fun and social, and I'm happy about that, but I don't feel that way about it for myself and doubt I ever will. I can daven just as well at home.

b from nj

Thu, May 15 2014, 11:53 am

I agree with the others who don't see what is the point of this thread. Is it just to criticize those who have different priorities than you do? I really don't get it & I find it interesting b/c Greenie is often complaining that others are very preachy & critical & yet, in this thread that is exactly what she is doing.

I don't think we should be judging others who go to shul later than we do or those who don't go at all. Why can't we just live & let live or daven & let daven Wink

Seriously!!!

I personally go to shul but usually get there around the time of the rabbi's speech & before musaf. That works for me. I don't force my 14 year old who has a hard time davening (mostly b/c of the language gap-doesn't understand what is being said) to come along with me. Lately there is a group at shul at 10:30am for girls her age to hang out together with a leader. They are encouraged to come earlier & daven with the teen minyan at our shul but they are not forced to attend the teen minyan. I don't think it's easy to show kids the beauty of davening when they have trouble understanding the meaning & may in fact, end up resenting it completely. I'd rather try to gently encourange my DD to come to shul & I can only hope that over time as she matures & begins to understand what she is saying, she will eventually get more into davening & find it important to come to shul or at least to daven at home. It is not something that can be forced on younger children & IMO is likely to backfire.

freidasima

Thu, May 15 2014, 12:08 pm

I think that a lot depends where you live and what the norm at your shul is.
Again - the kehilla I grew up in when we lived in america was tiny. If someone (male) didn't come to shul there wouldn't be a shomer shabbos minyan! And as shul was quite a mehalach from where we mostly lived, like half an hour each direction, we all went. Together, for safety quite a bit of the time.

But here in EY I learned fast that women between early 20s and early 50s don't go to shul. Maybe late 50s. Single girls go Friday nite, old married ladies shabbos morning. And I mean OLD ladies. I am considered young here in my mid 50s because it means that I have young grandchildren to help care for when they are here on shabbos. The ladies who really frequent shul are in their 70s and 80s and 90s because then, their grandchildren are already married with kids and they are free to go to shul in the morning (unless their husband davens netz or hashkomo like mine does as there is no women's section in the beis medrish where he davens in the morning...)

Kids who would go to shul, usually with their fathers, would be, as I said, vilde chayes. When my girls would go to shul they were mostly outside with their friends. At the Bnai Akiva minyan they davened but by then they were in their teens. And mostly they didn't go. When you go to school six days a week or work six days a week you want to sleep later on shabbos if you can. Sometimes my girls wouldn't come out of their room until noon when it was time for lunch. They needed to make up the sleep for the whole week as teens.

Anyhow, it's also a community thing. But truthfully the times I go to shul like RH and YK I spend most of the time counting how many burnt out light bulbs are there. We have a big shul and lots of burnt out light bulbs. Once I told my friend the rebbetzin what I do as it is just so "not"..for me and she laughed and the next RH she told me that she hates me as she ended up doing the same thing and had never thought about it before I told her....I guess we are from the same state of mind. We daven better at home, with no one around, no one gossiping, no kids running around (when we had our own you can be sure we never got a full davening in even at home), and the like. Shul ends up being a place of LH and rechilus for many women, (look what SHE is wearing! Is that her daughter showing so much leg??!! Look at X, I heard that she was sick with something but is trying not to let anyone know, do you know what it is?) etc etc etc.

I prefer, If I am already going to daven, not to have distractions. The women in shul are a distraction and the men? They just don't exist. I am not part of a minyan, I am not counted, I don't want to be counted but then, I also don't have to be there. It is cultural that I want to hear shofar or be there for Kol Nidre, but as for the rest? We are Orthodox. It is a man's thing to go to shul, men layn, men sing, we aren't even supposed to sing the davening and make too much noise so that they won't hear us.

So for what the heck do I exactly have to go to shul? To hear some man warble the sidra? I can read it at home myself thank you. I don't get extra credit for hearing it with trope. I get absolutely no sachar for davening in a minyan, for hearing keriyas hatorah or for going to shul. It does not make me feel more spiritual, it is not a part of my oneg shabbos. In my book women don't go to shul.

So why in the world should I go?

monseychick

Thu, May 15 2014, 12:55 pm

FS... I agree , most shuls are set up in a way that screams we would rather you didnt come , but if you insist, just be stay out of sight and be quiet, in fact I saw a shul in Lakewood that has a sign that says just that

I love going to www.baistorah.org, though , just to hear the speech. How else would I know what it says in the Wall S Journal that week

Ruchel

Fri, May 16 2014, 7:13 am

FS I relate to what you say, in all (almost?) shuls I've been - from OOT with only a few shomer shabbes families, to charedi synagogues. Women who do go, go as you say.

Page 3 of 4

Previous 1 2 3 4 Next