DH thinks I am OCD about cleaning help

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amother

Sun, May 25 2014, 3:54 pm

If you do all your cleaning yourself please do not make disparaging or unhelpful comments!

DH thinks I am OCD about having cleaning help. I pay for it with my own salary. He keeps telling me if I took less help I would have more money for other things (such as helping some of my children!). Actually, if the children would clean up after their children when they visit, it could be that I would manage with less help.

For example, I will hire someone from 9-5 for a month before Pesach because I can’t do it myself. But he thinks that is crazy!

DH can not understand that having a messy house bothers me, but I have health challenges and cleaning up is very difficult for me. He also does not understand why I think the house is not clean, mainly, I suppose, because he’s a man.

I built him a study with a private entrance. Yet, when people need to speak to him, he won’t tell them to use the private door in the back (unless they want the privacy). He lets them walk through my living room and kitchen. I am not really embarrassed, because, after all, I was not the one who invited them, was I?

DD says, people who are able to clean by themselves don’t get so stressed when a cleaning lady doesn’t come. I would love to be healthy enough to clean (though I would not love to clean, but I would do it when needed if I were able.)

DH keeps telling me, send out the laundry. Easy for him to say. If he has two clean white shirts he’s good for the week. I, OTOH, need my outfits to coordinate, dress differently according to the weather, occasion (formal or informal) etc. So I can’t afford to have clothing out for laundering for several days.

He says he’s happy to help with the dishes. Sure, if he notices them (he is trying harder lately). If an emergency doesn’t come up. If he’s not too tired because some emergency kept him up late last night.

Also he will not understand, though I have tried to point this out tactfully, that clean dishes should be placed to dry a. in the dishwasher b. on a drainboard c. on a towel but d. NOT on the counter where they ruin the Formica. He does not get it. I know, he’s a man.

I am in a lot of pain from my back in the last couple weeks, and I know it’s from the stress of having two cleaning ladies quit within 3 weeks. (Yet, according to Dr. Sarno, once I know the cause of my stress, it should go away. But it doesn’t.) I expressed last night that I think my pain is because it is hard for me to live with disorder and my husband just doesn’t try to understand, he just tries to tell me what to do. He did not hear me.

BTW I am not talking about OCD clean. I am talking about floors swept 3 times a week, washed once after Shabbos and once before Shabbos. Bathrooms 1-2 times weekly. Dishes washed daily, counters more or less clear, laundry washed, dried, ironed (as needed – not underwear!) and put away. Oh, and having someone to put on clean linens for guests, because I am not able to. Or we can just stop having guests (our own children). (I tried to clean my bathtub myself and it was very painful.)

I am nice to my help. I offer them food & drinks. I ask how they’re feeling. One quit because she want more hours closer to where she lives. The other one never gave notice, just stopped coming. (I had two because I was always afraid one would quit before Pesach. Of course, soon after Pesach, both quit!)

DD is sending me s/o tomorrow. I hope she will work out.

Shopmiami49

Sun, May 25 2014, 4:13 pm

No advice on the cleaning help, but maybe it's time for you to elicit your childrens' help when they come to you. Let THEM be responsible for their kids and their kids' mess - make sure they know that. And leave their linens in a neat pile on their beds; I'm sure they've made up a bed on their own before.

amother

Sun, May 25 2014, 4:17 pm

I really feel that my kid are doing me a favor by coming. It's easier for them to stay home. Asking them to clean up while they're trying to pack up & get their kids home & to sleep feels like too much to ask,

Anyhow, that's really only part of it. I still need a lot of other cleaning.

amother

Sun, May 25 2014, 5:17 pm

Does anyone think a poll of how many hours a week help you have would be informative and useful? For others to analyze their needs (not ch'v be intimidated by)? To show their DH that other women also need help?

Of course it would not factor in size of house, number of kids, number of hours you work.

So that would have to be added in posts anyhow.

Kugglegirl

Sun, May 25 2014, 5:36 pm

I don't think you are OCD. I posted a response to you from my phone, but I think it did not load.

Any how, if you have the resources to hire the help you need, I think you should go ahead & get the help & not feel bad about it. If you need daily help, get daily help.

I find that when one does not have the physical stamina to do things, it is hard to teach family members to do them a specific way & expect them to do it that way. Sometimes family members have other ideas about how to do things, or think their way is adequate, when the balabasta has a good reason why it should be done a different way. But it's not always worth the energy to keep explaining to family members why it has to be done that way.

When you have hired help, if you can find someone who is good, you can show them how to do something & tell them that's how you do it & there is no further discussion. (Or at least you have the authority to say that the discussion is over.)

People do not have the greatest of sympathy for these upper middle class problems, but I can definitely hear where your are coming from. I hope you can find the helper you need.

zaq

Sun, May 25 2014, 5:59 pm

If your health does not allow you to keep your home to your standards of cleanliness and you can afford the help, why not? It's not morally wrong to have cleaning help unless you're a card-carrying Socialist. Of course, there may be factors you're not revealing, such as that paying for cleaning help means not having enough to eat, or stinting on medical care, in which case one might have to rethink the help and lower one's standards of housekeeping a little bit.

no one would criticize you for taking your dress to a dressmaker to be hemmed if you suffered from arthritis that made it impossible to hold a needle. Why should housekeeping be any different?

marina

Sun, May 25 2014, 6:28 pm

Is this about cleaning help or about how your husband doesn't understand you?

Dolly Welsh

Sun, May 25 2014, 6:46 pm

Hugs.

Buy some more clothes, so you can send the laundry out.

Don't be embarrassed when people walk through. Their houses are not as nice as yours. They want to walk through the palace because everybody always wants to walk through a palace.

I think your attitude toward your children is right.

I think you will soon have good replacement help.

I don't think you should pay much mind to your husband's shortcomings. He is distracted.

Don't trouble yourself. Somehow it all gets done. Don't worry. The formica will be replaced someday anyway.

You should definitely have all the cleaning help you want or need. If they leave, they leave. There are always more. Don't have a tense attitude when they are around, it spooks them. A smile goes a long way.

If you truly don't want people schlepping through your quarters, just don't answer the door. People have cell phones. They will phone your husband and he will show them in through his entrance. Wear headphones with or without music and say you didn't hear the doorbell. When you hear the doorbell, put on the headphones, and disappear someplace. After a few times, it won't happen again. Don't say one word to your husband that you are doing this.

Hugs. You sound nice.

SRS

Sun, May 25 2014, 6:55 pm

I am not sure what problem you are trying to alleviate? You mention your children's kids, the grandkids. . .how often are they visiting? Why do you feel bad asking for help if the result would be that you can help them more? You say your husband points out you could help them more. . .is that a shared goal? One month of full time cleaning help before Pesach sounds intense. It is not criminal or anuthing, but it sounds like a lot especially if you only have grandchildren visiting. Maybe you can get better systems in place so you do not need as much help if that is causing friction.

SRS

Sun, May 25 2014, 6:59 pm

Also, since you use a lot of I and my rather than we and our. . Is this a second marriage? Usually my salary is our money to fulfill our goals which might be more cleaning help to deal with a household need or to help our children. In a second marriage I do seem more of a his and her divide that is not necesarily unhealthy. But I and me is a bit of a uh? in my book.

tropicalrainforest

Sun, May 25 2014, 7:10 pm

As a daughter , I would much rather my mother have cleaning help , take care of her health and be able to relax a little than help me financially . If my mother was helping me at the expense of her shalom bayis and health that would really bother me . The absolute best way to "help " your kids out is to take care your self mind , body and spirit .

You need to emphasize to your husband that cleaning help is an essential expense just like food, clothing and utilities . It is non negotiable . It is what you need to function at work and at home . Repeat this until he understands.
Good luck .

SRS

Sun, May 25 2014, 7:38 pm

They have no obligation to help adult children and their needs should come first, but it sounds like the husband does not think this level of cleaning help is essential. So why keep repeating rather than coming to an understanding that is mutually satisfactory. With full time help before pesah and other regular help, it sounds like a big expense. I think with big stuff, both spouses should be on board.

Last edited by SRS on Mon, May 26 2014, 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total

SRS

Sun, May 25 2014, 7:40 pm

delete double post

Last edited by SRS on Mon, May 26 2014, 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total

manyhats

Sun, May 25 2014, 9:01 pm

Dolly Walsh,

Your response is so right on as well as pish in your pants funny!

amother

Sun, May 25 2014, 9:26 pm

Actually, Marina is the one who had me PIP.

So, as far as "my" money situation, this is a first and, I hope, only, long and fairly happy marriage.

The money thing is because (as I've mentioned elsewhere) we realized it was better for SB to have separate bank accounts, bec DH will never write down a check & it drives me nuts. So he pays for certain expenses & I pay for others (including discretionary items, and he considers cleaning help one of them).

Besides covering our rents, utilities etc, he contributes to the rent & tuition for several married kids from his salary. Most of them are learning, the women work hard, but they can use a bit more help. I could do more for them from my salary if I were not so OCD : )

However, I recently told him that I am requiring him to pitch in somewhat for the cleaning because of this nasty habit of letting people in the front door!

Nice try, Dolly, but he will open the front door. He's not holed up in his study. (That's another little bone. He does his teaching prep on the dining room table when he has a perfectly nice study where he could be containing the mess. But okay. I can handle piles of seforim, and even a few photocopies on the dining room table. It's e/t else....)

Now, Marina, to your question. Right. I think it is about his failure to understand. And I also get that men (with the possible exception of our friend whose DH hires the Dreaded Organizer) mostly don't get it when it comes to how women want a house to look.

What he answered me was this: "I think you feel guilty that you don't take care of this house.
(HUH? Last I checked, hiring, paying and managing the help is called taking care of the house!!!!) But really, I am not upset with you. I understand it's hard for you. I am glad to help you. I just think it's OCD how much you depend on the help and how you go to pieces when they don't show up."

So yeah, I do feel non-understood, but I really think it's a Mars/Venus thing, and I am not sure it's subject to change.

SRS

Sun, May 25 2014, 9:41 pm

Sounds like you are doing plenty for the kids if part of his pay is going to them. I do not think one generation needs two generations of salaries to pay for their needs and if they do, oy vey. That is a subject for another time.

Sounds like you really do have a tough time if things are not just so. Perhaps you should explore that more, but not so you can hand over your salary to adult children, but so you can manage should you not have the help you enjoy now. I am symaphetic because I get pretty mad when a kid gets the floor messy and I have to clean it now rather than on a rotation. But in general a ckeaning person not showing should only be a bump in the road, not a cause of great anxiety.

Last edited by SRS on Sun, May 25 2014, 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Sun, May 25 2014, 9:45 pm

I am wondering if I should be evaluated for SPD or ADD/ADHD, because then I would have a scientific explanation for why a mess bothers me.

Or should I just keep trying to explain that it's normal for ladies to be bothered by a mess? Especially when people are walking into her house?

SRS

Sun, May 25 2014, 9:57 pm

amother wrote:

How did you manage when the kids were little? Is the problem with messes getting more intense? I wish everything in my house was Pesach clean, but Iwithout other stress factors I manage and I think most neat women do manage. If these messes are getting in the way of functioning, talk to your doc.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, May 25 2014, 10:05 pm

Those are good suggestions.

Or get evaluated if you think it would shush him.

Yes, it's pure Mars/Venus.

I was wondering if your floors were too clean. Then, I reflected that you have a lot of folks coming in; it's not just you and your husband, it's guests for Shabbos and students and all. So I held my tongue about your floors. They get traffic.

I have absolutely no idea what is bothering you. You aren't nuts, and your kids are handling their budgets. I do think you might send the laundry out, if you owned more clothes.

Please calm down. Feel better. Your husband isn't fabulously considerate, but intellectuals can be like that.

For crying out loud, you are no longer young, or strong, and you have a bad back.

Get another maid, and go in peace. Don't fret.

I hope you have some kind of private lady-space upstairs. Make a haven FOR YOURSELF ALONE that NOBODY invades. If there isn't one, PUT AN EXTENSION ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE so you can have a little green-house-y haven, a solarium. Make sure it is triple paned glass, and has heating elements installed inside the flooring.

Oh right, you still work at a job.

Wow. You do a lot.

Your husband is being territorial. There is no cure for that. That's why he likes to grandly welcome his students through the front door. He doesn't want them creeping around to what feels to him as a lesser entrance. Try, try, to not worry about that. He is very interested in not being exiled to the periphery of the house.

Or maybe he just sees: table. Good. Place to put stuff and do stuff.

As for getting him to help, fine, try. But don't be critical of him. Just keep praising what he does right.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Sun, May 25 2014, 10:12 pm; edited 3 times in total

amother

Sun, May 25 2014, 10:05 pm

Quote:

How did you manage when the kids were little?

I totally did not. No, that's not true. If I had help twice a week I could kind of keep it together for the days in between. DH also helped when the kids were younger, as he had fewer other responsibilities then.

But also when you have little kids you can have lower standards. As DH says, nobody lives here now (except when they visit! And make a mess! And leave it!).
[
This morning the DGC were having some fun with their drinks of water while their mother's back was turned for a moment. So she gave them a whole explanation about how this will ruin Bubbie's floor, and also somebody can trip and fall, and now we have to clean it up, and we must not do this again....They definitely try, I have to say.]

The thing is, I am a big procrastinator. I used to let the clothing pile up on a chair in my room because I was too tired to hang it up. I have gotten much better about that. Also it's not worth it bec. it gets wrinkled...

But, for example, I don't like to throw up magazines bec. maybe I want to re-read them/clip an article etc. So I have to resist the slight inclination to amass clutter.

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