Is this sentence correct

c.c.cookie

Mon, May 26 2014, 8:41 am

"I asked him if he would want our help building his succah."

This sentence was on my student's magen. The correct answer was "if he wanted help..." But "would want" was one of the options, and I think it's also correct. I know you're not supposed to use will or would after "if" but this is a different situation. I think "if he wanted" does not mean the same as "if he would want". "Would want" is more theoretical, whereas wanted is "lemaaseh".

Is there anyone here who knows the rules who might be able to settle this argument?

mummiedearest

Mon, May 26 2014, 9:03 am

I think the problem is mixing tenses. if you asked him what he wanted in that instant, "wanted" is correct. if you asked him what his wishes would be in the future (relative to the time of asking), I suppose "would want" could be acceptable. I would have considered the sentence incorrect unless provided with context that explained otherwise.

Scrabble123

Mon, May 26 2014, 10:45 am

WANT = WOULD LIKE. Wanted = Would have liked.

I would want indicates that a person would like to do something, but that they are incapable of doing so.

Present: "I would want to eat strawberries, but I cannot because they are infested with bugs."

Past Tense: "I would have wanted to go to the ice skating rink, but the only way to get there is on the highway, and I do not own a car."

As many posters pointed out, would often indicates something theoretical; however when speaking to an older adult or someone in a higher position, it is appropriate to ask them, "What would you like for breakfast" versus, "What do you want."

That answer demonstrates an incorrect understanding of a word and its usage/definition as well as an incomplete understanding of tenses.

granolamom

Mon, May 26 2014, 11:05 am

mummiedearest wrote:

so, I'm really bad at this kind of thing and I'm not trying to nitpick, just an honest attempt to understand this.
in your sentence above, do you mean that had you been the teacher when the student handed in the paper you would have marked it wrong? as opposed to 'I consider that wrong'? is that the difference between saying 'I would have considered...' and saying 'I would consider....'
or is it that 'would have' is past tense like 'provided'? or for consistency should it be 'would have' with 'having been provided with'?

grammar confuses me.

Scrabble123

Mon, May 26 2014, 11:17 am

granolamom wrote:

I'm not the teacher, but there is now way that I would have awarded credit to that student. The answer is in no way correct. Not only that, it demonstrates that the child has a lack of understanding of verbs, tenses, and definitions of words. I cannot see it possible to award credit. I am shocked to see that others feel this answer even possesses the possibility to e correct [with context].

As I stated above

Want = Would Like

Wanted = Would Have Liked

Would want (Present) and Would have wanted (Past) are used when a person would like/would have liked to do something, but is/was incapable of doing so due to another obstacle.

That is basic English grammar, and I find it shocking that no one else here has pointed that out.

I would also like to point out that students must be taught that while want has the same definition as would like, it implies an entirely different attitude.

Here we go:

I want applesauce. (I don't care what you think or if you have it in the house. Go to grocery and buy me some.)

I would like applesauce. (I do not mind if I don't get to have it.)

I would want to eat applesauce, but there is none in my house and all of the stores are closed due to a holiday.

I would have wanted applesauce, but we were out of it, and it was Shabbos and would have been against Halacha to buy some.

Scrabble123

Mon, May 26 2014, 11:26 am

cbg wrote:

I think you are reading too much into it. "Wanted" is the correct choice.

If he wanted help building his sukka.

It is simple and easy to understand. The other way was confusing.

Always go for the simple and easy to understand choice, if it is grammatically correct.

Always go for the simple and easy to understand choice?

What?

1. "If he wanted help building his sukka"
2. "If he would have liked help building his sukka"

Just to let you know, Option # 2 is the correct choice, and children should be taught the sensitivity between the two.

Of course would want is incorrect in many ways. I explained that before, but I am frustrated to see you commenting that one should "ALWAYS go for the simple and easy to understand choice." Such advice could not be further from the truth.

mummiedearest

Mon, May 26 2014, 11:32 am

granolamom wrote:

assuming the following:

1) this is a multiple choice exam
2) the student is asked to pick the grammatically correct sentence
3) there is no reading comprehension paragraph (associated with the question) that indicates a question about future wishes
4) I teach this student
5) the test has already been marked

I would have marked it wrong without question. if the test is not fully marked (I.e. it will be marked in the future), I would mark it wrong. if I am marking it right this second, I mark it wrong. but in the present tense, I wouldn't be online talking about it, so there's no need for that sentence.

mummiedearest

Mon, May 26 2014, 11:37 am

Scrabble123 wrote:

wow, I didn't even catch the issue with "want." you're right. I must be slipping Smile

5*Mom

Mon, May 26 2014, 12:38 pm

Got it, thanks.

I maintain that it is a grammatically correct, hypothetical sentence.

"I would want strawberries if someone would be so kind as to wash and hull them for me.

"I would want their help building my succah if they were to offer it."

It does depend on context, which does not seem to have been provided on the test. So, correct is correct.

c.c.cookie

Mon, May 26 2014, 4:09 pm

5*Mom wrote:

This is exactly what I feel. Yes, wanted was the answer they were going for, but I don't think it's fair to mark "would want" wrong, because I think it means something different. But we seem to be the minority here.

seeker

Mon, May 26 2014, 4:58 pm

If no context was provided, then it is an unfair question because more than one answer is correct. I disagree that one is more correct than another - if there is any context in which the other would be correct, and no context is given, then you cannot consider it wrong. I speak as a teacher, not as a grammarian. I have many students who think out-of-the-box and are in some ways smarter than the people making up the tests. They are often right when they say more than one answer is equally correct, and even if one is only acceptable it's unfair to mark it WRONG when in fact it is acceptable. This is a limitation of multiple choice exams.

When I first read the sentence in the OP, before reading that it was a multiple choice question, I thought it was part of a scenario like this: "In an attempt to plan ahead, before Rosh Hashana I asked [my elderly neighbor] if he would want help building his succah the next week. He said he would not need help because his sons would be coming to do it. But they backed out and now I feel bad leaving him in the lurch even though I went ahead and made other commitments."

c.c.cookie

Tue, May 27 2014, 1:40 am

For those of you who say the sentence is incorrect, let me ask you:
"I asked my neighbor if he wanted help" - means at that time. How would you ask him hypothetically about the future?
Let me clarify my question more. This sentence is reported speech. So if this were the quote:
"Neighbor, will you want help building your succah?" How would you turn that into reported speech?
I asked my neighbor if... Please continue this for me.