Force bridesmaids to dress tzanua...?

S. Malka

Wed, May 28 2014, 9:57 am

Hi everyone,

I am posting on behalf of my sister who B"H is getting married (she obviously can't post since she's not married yet!)

Here's the deal:

My sister is a BT and is much more religious than 90% of of our family, and most of our friends. The wedding guests are a mix of non-Jew, liberal Jew, MO, and Lubavitch, so as you can probably imagine it poses its own unique planning dilemmas.

One of those is: in your opinion, is it acceptable for the bride to make the bridesmaids wear tzanua dresses? A couple of them are very, very NOT used to dressing modestly, and might really not want to. My sister doesn't want to force them to wear dresses they don't want to wear, but is also concerned about potentially making some wedding guests feel uncomfortable.

What about wedding guests? I know she doesn't want to go too far, but it's difficult to balance the needs of each guest, as there is such a huge range of observance. There will be a mechitza for dancing, for example, but we haven't decided on whether it will be mixed or separate seating for dinner.

*sigh*

.....but what about tznius?

Any help you wonderful ladies can offer is appreciated!

Signed,
Two inexperienced wedding planners

amother

Wed, May 28 2014, 10:06 am

I'm a BT. I asked my mother to wear a tzniusdigge dress to my chasuna with a shaitel. I deeply regret that decision. I think it shows how immature I was at the time. My mother is not a flashy type, so even if she would have worn something not tzniusdig, it wouldn't have been revealing or inappropriate. Also, why did she have to have a shaitel. I think it was just rude, and although I cannot express that to my parents properly, I am sorry. I wish I would have been mature enough to realize that I am who I am and my parents are who they are. It doesn't matter if my mother has a shaitel or not! If he dress is an inch above her knees or 2 inches below. I wish I would have been able to show my parents that I love them unconditionally, even if they live their lives differently than I do (BH I show them that now, but I always wonder if my mother hurts when she thinks back to having to be a shaitel to my wedding...)

I cannot tell you or your sister what to do, but just share my personal experience.

amother

Wed, May 28 2014, 10:07 am

amother wrote:

I am the amother above.

Maybe have your sister ask them to wear something modest, but not necessarily follow the highest standards of tznius?

nylon

Wed, May 28 2014, 10:23 am

Yes, it's okay to ask them to dress modestly, within reason. Part of being a bridesmaid is that you don't have full say over what you wear. Many bridesmaid dresses today are strapless or fully sleeveless which is problematic. In fact, the bridesmaids may not be terribly surprised because even many non-Orthodox synagogues do not permit these dresses without a coverup. (Length is easy since short skirts are still the exception rather than the rule.)

That said, I wouldn't go overboard--don't insist they cover everything from collarbone to below the elbow. I would also advise not going with the shell under sleeveless dress look. If you can't find something in the regular stores or ones catering to frum brides, I have recently heard of people ordering from the modest bridal sites catering to LDS brides. The dresses aren't expensive. Or they can wear jackets over their dresses. (Ooops - I missed that you are in SA so forget that option!)

As for the guests I have had non-Orthodox people ask me what to wear... people can be sensitive. (I generally say "no sleeveless, no cleavage, no miniskirts" and I have never had someone be offended by that answer; it's easy enough to work with). I wouldn't put announcements in the invitations or anything like that, but it's okay to give general guidelines.

Bella:D

Wed, May 28 2014, 10:32 am

For the bridesmaids she can absolutely tell them what to wear, if they don't want to wear a dress that is totally tzanua they can wear a shell underneath or a jacket on top but she can tell them they need to keep it on the whole time (thats what I told my bridesmaids and it was no problem).

For the guests, she could add a line at the bottom of the invitation like "modest attire requested" or something, I'm not sure what the wording is usually but obviously people will interpret that the way they want and also some might choose to ignore it. Its harder to control guests thah bridesmaids.

Good luck and Mazal tov!

Kitten

Wed, May 28 2014, 10:38 am

I don't think it's a good idea to force people how to dress, especially if they don't necessarily have a positive image of the frum world.
From what I have seen, there are 3 main possibilities for the non accustomed guests or family:
-1/ They know you dress differently, or they suspect you do, and will ask you how to dress. You can tell them that it is our custom to dress with knees and elbows covered and that they can choose a more modest style if they don't feel confortable sticking out. I don't think you need to force them to wear a sheitel.
-2/ They know how you dress but think it doesn't apply to them. As long as they are comfortable like that, it's fine.
-3/ They know how you dress, think it's ridiculous and precisely will dress half naked to show you the true way. It's just a childish behavior, let them be.
It's already very nice that they are coming, you should let them come as themselves. I think people will appreciate that they made an effort to come to start with. How many relatives and friends of BTs don't come to chasunas?
I went once to a chasuna where the mother of the Kallah wore some sort of long tank top instead of a dress (it looked like a tank top to me). She had fun and all of the kallah frum friends were very happy to see her.
Also, don't forget that some communities don't want non-Jews, including relatives, to come to chasunas. Your community seems open minded, so you can take advantage of that.

greenfire

Wed, May 28 2014, 10:39 am

I always thought bride's rule the bridesmaid dresses ... so if one person can pick totally ludicrous dresses ... why not more conservative dresses ... I mean who really wants to see cleavage

even if they are each getting their own style - you can work with them to make choices that appeal to both bride & bridesmaid

Kitten

Wed, May 28 2014, 10:41 am

I forgot to say that for bridesmaid, I would guess it's perfectly normal for the kallah to decide what they wear and I'm sure they won't have any problem with that. Then again, I never saw a chasuna with bridesmaids...

Last edited by Kitten on Wed, May 28 2014, 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total

Ruchel

Wed, May 28 2014, 10:43 am

Either you choose their dress, or they dress as wanted by them.

Yet again I only saw bridesmaids at one Jewish wedding, and it was a total total mess and all of them except one ended up quitting.

That said you CAN tell friends that "because rabbis will be there" (or whatever) they should skip cleavage. For ex.

STMommy

Wed, May 28 2014, 10:52 am

I agree that the bride can ask the bridesmaids to dress modestly, I would think if they're close enough to be bridesmaids they will want to respect the bride, but the bride should be OK with less-than-the-strictest standards. I asked my bridesmaids to be modest, and when they showed up in scoopneck dresses with short sleeves I was perfectly happy.

amother

Wed, May 28 2014, 10:58 am

2 separate issues. Bridesmaids can definitely be told what to wear- in fact, many brides pick out a dress and all the bridesmaids have to wear it. Your sister can pick out a modest dress and tell them this is the dress I want my bridesmaids to wear.

For the guests, you can put "modest attire please" on the invite. It leaves a lot for interpretation, but it does cut down on really offensive things without hurting feelings. Most Jews understand that a request like that means no thigh and no cleavage. They may still come wearing something sleeveless, but it will have a back and not be too low cut. Most of my non-frum relatives, including my grandmother, wore high necked sleeveless, with a shawl or jacket during the chuppah. I had one guest- a colleague of my father's- who for some reason was invited plus-1 even though he was neither married nor engaged, and the date he brought was wearing next to nothing. Literally, her dress, if it could be called that, was about a half inch past the tush and on top was about a half inch away from a nip slip. My staunchly secular grandmother was horrified, and still talks about how disrespectful and distasteful it was, even all these years later. But that one exception aside, people were very respectful of the setting.

S. Malka

Wed, May 28 2014, 11:00 am

Thanks everyone for your wonderful replies! The bridesmaids thing is....an effort to appease those of the kallah's acquaintance who would be very upset if they weren't included in the wedding somehow. They won't actually be in the ceremony, just in pictures and included in general wedding prep.

Can you tell how complicated planning this is turning out to be? Count yourselves lucky if you've never had to bridge wide swaths of yiddishkeit! The travails of baalei tshuva and converts Smile

saw50st8

Wed, May 28 2014, 11:09 am

S. Malka wrote:

The bolded stuck out to me.

If she doesn't care, I think its unfair to ask the bridesmaids to alter their clothing because of other guests. If she cares herself, its fair game, but may not spread good will.

amother

Wed, May 28 2014, 11:15 am

For my wedding, I asked my immediate family (parents and sibs) to dress fully tznius, except for hair covering. I gave them the guidelines, abd told them they could wear anything in any color except preferably not bright red.

I think this was perfectly reasonable, especially since my sis had picked out a hideous bridesmaid dress for me to wear, that I had to build up to make tznus.

For guests, we included a cute poem about what to wear for first who might not know. Not everyone followed, no guests followed strictly, but it was fine.

chatouli

Wed, May 28 2014, 11:15 am

My bridesmaids also were from a variety of observance levels. I gave them fabric and told them that ideally they should be covering knees, elbows and collarbone, but that if the dresses missed the elbows or collarbone by a couple inches I didn't care. They all came back with very appropriate dresses and looked beautiful. Everyone understood my request wasn't intended to be hurtful. What a couple did was make a sleeveless boat neck dress with a matching wrap or jacket so they could wear it again.

mille

Wed, May 28 2014, 11:36 am

I mean, obviously the answer will depend on the religiosity of the bride and groom and whatnot... I asked my bridesmaids (mostly non-Jewish/non-religious) to not show cleavage and cover their shoulders. This put them pretty in line with a lot of the guests' attire that we saw.

OP I think this is pretty much a non-issue unless some bridesmaids are refusing to follow the guidelines. The only thing out of line IMO is asking married women to cover their hair fully if that's not what they normally do.