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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shavuos
Do you stay up to learn at night?
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 5:22 am
In all of the communities that I have lived in it was a done thing for women to stay up and learn at night. I never did as I am a complete basket case if I dont have my night sleep.

Do you stay up to learn? All? Some? Not at all?
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 5:30 am
Usually until 1 or 2 am. Last year however I fell asleep on the couch after dinner and that was that even though a good friend was speaking right next door and I really wanted to go hear him. I'm hoping to avoid a recurrence of that this year but I don't know. I seem to need more sleep these days and we're having guests for dinner so I will be tired for sure. I know I should try to rest in the afternoon but somehow that never happens.
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Rutabaga




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 5:31 am
I used to stay up when I was single and had friends to learn and have discussions with. If I tried to listen to a shiur I would fall asleep.

Now that I'm married with a child, I no longer stay up. I'm very happy to encourage DH to do so and to let him sleep late the next morning.

Frankly, having stayed up to learn myself for a few years, I'm not so convinced of the quality of the learning going on. By the middle of the night, everyone is bleary eyed and half asleep (if not more). It may be sacrilegious to say so, but I think people would learn more/better if they got a good night of sleep and learned during the day.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 5:40 am
Rutabaga wrote:
I used to stay up when I was single and had friends to learn and have discussions with. If I tried to listen to a shiur I would fall asleep.

Now that I'm married with a child, I no longer stay up. I'm very happy to encourage DH to do so and to let him sleep late the next morning.

Frankly, having stayed up to learn myself for a few years, I'm not so convinced of the quality of the learning going on. By the middle of the night, everyone is bleary eyed and half asleep (if not more). It may be sacrilegious to say so, but I think people would learn more/better if they got a good night of sleep and learned during the day.


ITA! A friend of mine used to host an all night women's learning in her home. The quality of discussion increased exponentially when she changed it to the final 3 hours on the second day.

I think we miss the boat when we take on things we are not ready for. AIUI, at one point, it was only those on the highest level, who were already learning all day, who stayed up all night. Now, it is done everywhere.

Could it be because there is not "enough" to make the YT special in the eyes of the community otherwise?
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 6:07 am
I happily gave it up when I learned women don't have to. DH has chetzi l'Shem and I make the Chetzi l'chem
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 6:14 am
Iymnok wrote:
I happily gave it up when I learned women don't have to. DH has chetzi l'Shem and I make the Chetzi l'chem
Nobody has a chyuv to learn all night, not even men.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 6:39 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
In all of the communities that I have lived in it was a done thing for women to stay up and learn at night. I never did as I am a complete basket case if I dont have my night sleep.

Do you stay up to learn? All? Some? Not at all?

In all of the communities that I have lived in, some people (listen carefully: people) stay up all night, some people go to a shiur or two and go to sleep, some sleep for a while and get up to learn, and some sleep through the night.

All of these options are fine. I have never lived in a community where people (again: people) were obligated to choose a particular one of these options.
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morah




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 6:56 am
I did before I had kids. Now I need all the sleep I can get. Also, we can't both stay up since since someone has to take care of the kids the next day. So dh still does it but I don't. Maybe when my kids are old enough to do it themselves, I will do it once more. I always found it fun.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 6:59 am
all night in my city =1:30 am or so.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 7:46 am
imasoftov wrote:
In all of the communities that I have lived in, some people (listen carefully: people) stay up all night, some people go to a shiur or two and go to sleep, some sleep for a while and get up to learn, and some sleep through the night.

All of these options are fine. I have never lived in a community where people (again: people) were obligated to choose a particular one of these options.
When I wrote that it was the done thing for women to learn, I was not saying that the women HAD TO stay up to learn. I was just saying that women did stay up, quite a few.
Where I live now, there are specific shiurim for women only, men only and mixed shiurim.

I guess I meant it in the way that there are communities where it is not done for women to stay up and learn, no matter what.

Does that make more sense?
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 8:29 am
Never have, never will. In the past it was the men, who stayed up, not the women. I see no reasonto add another obligation on myself. If you want to learn, go ahead, but in truth, you get no extra mitzvah for learning on shavuos night so why do it? LeArn in the day instead when your not so tired.
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 8:52 am
Tikkun lel Shavuot is something I look forward to all year. It's a very unique experience in our town. The streets of the yishuv are thronged with people (men, women and kids) shul hopping at all hours of the night. Before the chag a list of shiurim that will take place throughout the entire yishuv is posted on the municipality's website so that people can plan their evening (and the following afternoon as well). There are literally hundreds of shiurim to choose from - in shuls and in private homes, in Hebrew and English, given by men and women alike. Rav Riskin makes the rounds of the shuls in all the Efrat neighborhoods. Each hour of the night he lectures somewhere else. The schools organize tikum lel shavuot for each grade in the homes of student's whose parents have volunteered to give a shiur. The youth organizations also have their own shiurim for the older kids. No one feels obligated to stay and learn once their energy level can't sustain them but it's always a disappointment when you realize that you can't possibly stay up for that really great shiur scheduled for 4 am. It is harder for women to make it to those wee hour shiurum and indeed many fewer do. By then I suspect that even the male audience has dwindled to those hard-core devotees (who were also smart and lucky enough to have napped before the chag).
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 8:53 am
How do women with young kids pull this off? I know of many programs for single women and married women are welcome to join, but I'm wondering how there can be enough available that it can be a done thing in any community.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 8:57 am
MaBelleVie wrote:
How do women with young kids pull this off? I know of many programs for single women and married women are welcome to join, but I'm wondering how there can be enough available that it can be a done thing in any community.
I know some husbans that stay home for their wives to be able to go to a shiur or two and then they switch. Or I think its more so for couples with older children.
Or they get a babysitter or hope that grandparents stay for the chag to babysit Wink
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 8:59 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
I know some husbans that stay home for their wives to be able to go to a shiur or two and then they switch. Or I think its more so for couples with older children.
Or they get a babysitter or hope that grandparents stay for the chag to babysit Wink


Right, I understand that there are some options to make it work. I was wondering how so many women have these options available as to make it a done thing for women to go...
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 9:02 am
MaBelleVie wrote:
Right, I understand that there are some options to make it work. I was wondering how so many women have these options available as to make it a done thing for women to go...
I think its mostly women with older kids or kids old enough to be watched by an older sibling. I dont think women with little kids can really go out and learn at night.
Here where I live, I have never gone, but I know many many other women who do, every year, because their children are old enough to be sleeping at home alone.
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 9:07 am
OK, if the women generally have older kids it makes sense. Personally I would not do it because someone has to be alert enough to properly care for the kids and make the chag enjoyable... So I wouldn't get a sitter for that purpose.
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 9:13 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
I think its mostly women with older kids or kids old enough to be watched by an older sibling. I dont think women with little kids can really go out and learn at night.
Here where I live, I have never gone, but I know many many other women who do, every year, because their children are old enough to be sleeping at home alone.


This. It's not really a feasible thing for a mother with very young kids. There are couples that do switch off if necessary but I think that most of the young mothers are simply too tired to attend more than 1 shiur if at all. My kids are all teens now and they go out to their own shiurim with their friends. The only one left at home is DH who goes right to bed after the meal. He's not a night person....
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morah




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 9:24 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
I know some husbans that stay home for their wives to be able to go to a shiur or two and then they switch. Or I think its more so for couples with older children.
Or they get a babysitter or hope that grandparents stay for the chag to babysit Wink


The night is the easy part. Anyone can stay home with sleeping kids. Would those grandparents be willing to also watch them while you sleep the next day? Not quite as likely. It's not just the night. I you stay up all night, you need to sleep all morning. The whole thing is just not feasible with very young kids. This isn't the only thing like that. It's temporary, in however many years, it will be possible again.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 01 2014, 10:35 am
I haven't really seen girls or women learning especially that night, not in the MO circles I frequent or the yeshivish ones either.

I once went to a mixed event for Shavuot, mostly MO based. There was a choice of mixed shiurim (that my husband said the level is terrible), and one Gmara type course for boys only where he ended up going, and I ended up chatting with girls and not learning more than a few minutes...
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