Awkward situation. What would you do?

amother

Sat, Jun 07 2014, 10:21 pm

So I had one guest for shabbos and cooked accordingly. There was one side dish that both my husband and guest were looking forward to (for good reason...it was AMAZING!!). I had just served the main dish when a couple came over. They said they left off their lights and needed a place to crash. They walked in carrying a pan with some food in it (far from a full seuda or even course worth!) and proceeded to take plates and sit down. They then helped themselves to the food. Particularly the special side that we had all been looking forward to. I had prepared plenty...enough for the three of us to have 3-4 but the uninvited guest took that platter immediately and helped himself to a large serving. He then continued taking. He had no problem taking the last one and finishing off all the drinks on the table (including the one the guest brought which I know she really enjoyed). I didn't know what to do. I knew he wasn't going hungry and I didn't want my husband, or more importantly my guest, to leave hungry. I also couldn't think of a polite way to make sure there was enough to go around. I also didn't necessarily want to leave the uninvited couple out (even though they just cost me Sunday nights dinner). How would you handle such a situation?

amother

Sat, Jun 07 2014, 10:40 pm

ChutzPAh wrote:

Just let it go if this was a one time thing.

The problem is it's not a one time thing. I mean, this specific occurrence was the first of its kind but I've posted about this couple before...my brother and sister in law who invite us but ask me to cook half the meal, go through my cabinets etc. This itself never happened and I would have made other guest more uncomfortable had I said anything but I really hope she wasn't hungry. In terms of saying something to brother and sister in law...I can't think of anything either. She did go through my cabinets yesterday and I only noticed what she took today because she opened a closed container. I do wish I had the guts to say something or somehow get the behavior to change.

out-of-towner

Sat, Jun 07 2014, 10:50 pm

I was about to post that this sounded fishy and that it seemed to me that this was too ridiculous to have been spontaneous. Then you said that you were the OP of the brother and sister in law thread and that this was them, and my suspicions were confirmed. OP there is something seriously wrong with this couple, and you need to lay firm boundaries right now. This is NOT, under any circumstances, normal behavior. I would have actually stopped them in their tracks and said something like "I'm sorry, this is not a good time to come, DH and I were looking forward to having some time alone with our guest." Leaving their lights off is not the most horrible thing in the world, that is why you have Shabbos candles.

Also, about your SIL going through your cabinets, you need to tell her that from now on, you will be keeping a Cheshbon of what she takes and will need her to give back what she borrows. Make it clear to her that you are not a food pantry and are relying on the food in your cabinets for your own use. Somehow I think that this is the type of couple that is either clueless, or is trying to mooch off of you, and I doubt that your budget is able to handle food for two couples.

Kol Hakavod to you for trying to keep the family peace, but I think that if you continue to extend yourself like that you will snap eventually...and it won't be pretty!

imasinger

Sat, Jun 07 2014, 11:04 pm

The special food disappearing into your uninvited brother like that is the kind of thing you will laugh about someday.

Let this particular thing go in your own emotions, knowing that you have lots of hugs and sympathy here. I'm sure nobody starved. Treat it as that that you, your DH, and friend weren't meant to have it this time, and you can make it again.

But what makes the situation unfunny is the repeated violation of boundaries.

I'm almost tempted to tell you to lock your doors and close the blinds on Shabbos so as to be able to ignore surprise incursions. And, of course, setting limits wherever possible in advance to preclude their treating you merely as sources of free food and other stuff.

You will have to consider whether it makes any sense to let your brother know what he did, and request that they provide a Sunday dinner for you to apologize and thank you.

Out of curiosity, what stopped you from saying, "hey, save some for the rest of us, I cooked for 3, not 5" to him in the moment?

amother

Sat, Jun 07 2014, 11:12 pm

imasinger wrote:

The special food disappearing into your uninvited brother like that is the kind of thing you will laugh about someday.

Let this particular thing go in your own emotions, knowing that you have lots of hugs and sympathy here. I'm sure nobody starved. Treat it as that that you, your DH, and friend weren't meant to have it this time, and you can make it again.

But what makes the situation unfunny is the repeated violation of boundaries.

I'm almost tempted to tell you to lock your doors and close the blinds on Shabbos so as to be able to ignore surprise incursions. And, of course, setting limits wherever possible in advance to preclude their treating you merely as sources of free food and other stuff.

You will have to consider whether it makes any sense to let your brother know what he did.

Out of curiosity, what stopped you from saying, "hey, save some for the rest of us, I cooked for 3, not 5" to him in the moment?

Honestly, my biggest concern was my other guests comfort. As a guest I'd MUCH rather go hungry than have someone say something like that. We also laughed about it today and she insists that she wasn't hungry.
As to what my sil took...this time was only gum. I just found it incredibly odd that she opened a closed container in someone elses house. Then again, I know the problem stems from her feeling like family and what not. Last time we ate there she offered me to go through her cabinets and take whatever I want. She is also on a strict diet but bakes for others all the time (stuff that she'll never eat). She sent us cupcakes on our anniversary and left baked goods at our door a couple of times "just because" so I'm definitely not at the point of starting to nickel and dime her.
The truth is the biggest issue is my brother. I never realized quite how off he can be (he's really successful in business which makes no sense with these behaviors). I finally said something when I heard third hand about how weird he was when he ate somewhere else and his only response was that people have way too much time on their hands to talk about others like this. We're also both very generous by nature so he would never think this is an issue (he'd gladly give so wouldn't everyone else??) and would think I'm nuts for even noticing.

imasinger

Sat, Jun 07 2014, 11:27 pm

OK, the way you described them on the last thread, it sounded like they took more than they gave. If they are basically good people, but (especially your brother) a little "off", your best bet might be to think proactively.

Every time you will interact with them, try to anticipate what they might do. Then, try in a gentle, good humored way, to prevent the problem. Head your brother off at the pass with a whispered word to go easy on the pastrami bean dish and the special drink. Remind your SIL quietly that you really appreciate it when she asks you for anything she might want (like gum) rather than ransacking your cabinets. (The response to her offer to let you do it might be, "well, you and I are different. I don't like anyone doing it to me, and I certainly wouldn't be comfortable doing it to you. Just ask me for what you want, OK?")

Learning to guess what might be a problem is helpful in two ways. It turns your reactions into a game, where you give yourself credit for anticipating right. That makes you less likely to harbor a grudge when they overstep boundaries; you are too busy taking notes and thinking of what YOU can do. And it also can gradually make them a little more aware of how you wish them to behave in your home.

amother

Sat, Jun 07 2014, 11:39 pm

imasinger wrote:

Thus far, they've DEFINITELY taken more than they give but I can be ok with that for the most part (bh I'm not going hungry any time soon). Good family relationships are more important than cashews even though I get annoyed that I need to go shopping again or don't have the ingredients I need next time. The biggest issue with that is that I don't want her all up in my space but much as everyones suggestions have been great I can't see myself saying anything just yet.
And I'd love to anticipate but how the heck to you anticipate such random behavior??? I don't get the story (how would they suddenly notice two hours into shabbos that all their lights were off and where was all their food??). SIL claims to be too scared of dark so they were walking over to my parents to sleep. Not sure why they made the pit stop by us first (I had mentioned we had guest and they should stop by at some point I don't think they took that as a meal invite!). I'd love to be proactive and anticipate but I think it's impossible when it comes to such random issues.

forever21

Sat, Jun 07 2014, 11:48 pm

So this uninvited guest was your brother? Now its a whole diff situation! Perhaps if it were a guest then you mighty feel uncomfortable saying something but your brother? tell him off! for heavens sake, its your brother! when he started taking more of the good side dish just slap his hand and tell him to lay off and save some for the rest of you.
unless of course your upbringing was diff than mine and your family was very prim and proper with each other.. Rolling Eyes

SplitPea

Sat, Jun 07 2014, 11:49 pm

amother wrote:

What about being passive aggressive? Install magnet locks in your cabinets. They are for childproofing and can't be seen from the outside.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/....._QL40

The handle the woman in the pic is holding is a magnetic removable piece and when the locks are installed they can't be seen at all. THEN if she comes asking why your cabinets won't open you have a way to gently say "is there something I can get for you"

About dinner. In the moment I would have froze and done what you did. But it's time for a talk and just say you need notice if its not an emergency. (You
Might also think about plating food for people if ever yu have surprise guest again)

Learning

Sun, Jun 08 2014, 12:24 am

I agree with plating the food. When you realize they are knocking before you open take away the special food. And tell your brother that it was rude of him and not to do it again. It is just not done. Maybe he just didn't get it.
For the sil taking food. I don't understand why would she take anything from your cabinet. Just tell her not to take anything from your house. Say that you need everything because you buy in advance (...and anyway you are not a store.. For free.)

DrMom

Sun, Jun 08 2014, 12:39 am

amother wrote:

I don't get the story (how would they suddenly notice two hours into shabbos that all their lights were off and where was all their food??). SIL claims to be too scared of dark so they were walking over to my parents to sleep. Not sure why they made the pit stop by us first (I had mentioned we had guest and they should stop by at some point I don't think they took that as a meal invite!). I'd love to be proactive and anticipate but I think it's impossible when it comes to such random issues.

I remember your previous thread.

Sorry, but these people sound like snoops and liars and opportunists. Was your brother always like this or is it just since marrying your SIL that this behavior started?

I would have asked him at the table in front of everyone exactly what you were wondering: "So, (brother), how did you suddenly notice two hours into shabbos that all your lights were off and where was all your food?" If you don't start demanding answers and make it uncomfortable for them to behave the way they do, they will continue to take advantage of you.

5*Mom

Sun, Jun 08 2014, 1:31 am

amother wrote:

Then this problem is about you, not them.

Is it your brother specifically who intimidates you so, or do you let people take advantage of you in general? Is there a reason for that?

DrMom

Sun, Jun 08 2014, 2:39 am

amother wrote:

The biggest issue with that is that I don't want her all up in my space but much as everyones suggestions have been great I can't see myself saying anything just yet.

You want to wait until it gets even worse?

Worse than demanding you cook fancy expensive food for shabbat dinners to which you are invited in their home (from your previous thread)

Worse than barging in unexpectedly with half-baked excuses and eating all your food?

Worse than opening our cabinets and helping themselves to expensive nosh (from your other thread) and not reimbursing you?

What are you waiting for?!?

Confronting people, especially neighbors, and more especially relatives who are neighbors is uncomfortable, but in the long run, less so than being a doormat. You don't need to be rude, but you do need to be firm.