Torn bet. two priorities: I want to be the best mom and wife

greatfulmom

Mon, Apr 30 2007, 10:40 am

Hi everyone. I need your opinions on this subject.

I am two years married, and pregnant with my second child, B"H. I am working full time, and dh is in kollel. He would love to continue learning forever, and I would love that too, since he is best at that! Meaning, he is really a learner, not just a bench kvetcher, as u call some. Anyways, when I found out I'm pregnant, and gonna have my first two kids 19 months apart, I got really worried.

I was always the type to say that I'm gonna be a mother to my children and not let someone else bring them up while I'm at my carreer. But, I was also the type that wanted to be a supportive wife, if hubby was upto learning... Now I'm torn between my two most important goals, and don't know which one is right or wrong. I hate thinking about the fact that I will have two kids under the age of two going to a sitter, while I am at work. It makes me think, why am I having children, to let someone else ejoy them while they're growing up? After all, kids do need a mother, even though they seem to be happy at a sitter.

What to do? I wouldn't think of sending dh to work, he's really not that type. Any suggestions? I'm really leaving it up to Hashem to send me the right plan. I don't want to work full time anymore. My boss is willing to let me work from home and do sales for him. I was doing bookkeepping up until now. And I hear from my friends that it is impossible to work at home with two active kids! And then, even leaving behind two kids for four hours a day only is rediculous to me... Don't u think so?! Is that why I'm having kids for?!

mimivan

Mon, Apr 30 2007, 2:01 pm

Hi. I'm a work at home mom with a husband in collel and 2 kids ba'h.
They are right, you can't really work at home with two active kids without help, but why not hire a babysitter to be in your home while you are working? I know babysitting can be expensive. I just use the babysitter for half a day (for my baby, my older one is in gan) and then I work the other four hours half at night and half in the afternoon when he's napping. That way I get in 8 hours a day.

I felt the same way you do, but I don't mind leaving my baby with someone else for four hours (this is in her home), particularly if I trust her and know she has yirat shamaim (she has had quite a few children herself ba'h) and is warm and loves babies. And anyway, it isn't like a full day. I still spend plenty of time with my baby, and it gives me a break. I really feel like a better mother because of it. I know this business about "quality time" can be a cliche, but a more who is refreshed has the energy to give her baby more attention, and attention means more than sheer number of hours.

Count it as a blessing that your boss will let you work from home.
B'shaa tova and bhatzlacha

creativemommyto3

Mon, Apr 30 2007, 2:47 pm

mimivan wrote:

What do you do? do you work after 4?

amother

Tue, May 01 2007, 8:55 am

Just something to have in mind while reading these responses (besides the fact that nobody here I presume knows you well enough to give you advise that will be tailored to your situation) is that from what I've seen from other threads most people here will advocate staying home over having a husband learn full time. Not saying whether that is right or wrong, but just be prepared!

Now, to address your question….I work full time, my husband is learning (also not a bench-warmer as you wrote, someone whose tafkid is really to learn) and we have an 8-month old baby (BE”H we should be zoche to more at the right time). It is definitely difficult, I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that. And I’m sure it will not get easier with more kids but life is not about making it easier for yourself it’s about doing your tafkid and ratzon Hashem. I don’t think it’s right to say “if I leave my kids all day why am I having them in the first place”. You are still their mother, you will still have tremendous impact on them and how they will grow up. For one, they will see first hand what it means to be moser nefesh for Torah and it will instill in them the chashivus of learning. They will still love you, don’t worry. My mother always worked (albeit she had to financially-wise) and though sometimes I wished she would be home when I came home from school etc, I really don’t think it affected me negatively – I grew up to be independent, and I still love and value my mother tremendously.

I guess what I am trying to say is you have to be very honest with yourself – what the right thing is for everybody in your family and klal yisroel and whether you can do it. Much hatzlocha to you!
Thumbs Up

greatfulmom

Tue, May 01 2007, 8:57 am

Thank you all for your responses.

To MOM222:
He doesn't have a rav!

To Nomad:
And he's not the type to give his two cents of advice to every one of my worries. He's a good listener, but that's where it ends. When I tell him, I'm worried about our financials for after the baby, he tells me to leave it up to Hashem. He's the type of person who's a bit unrealistic, and he seems content with the idea, of living on food stamps, and the little support that my father gives, to help us pay off our mortgage... Otherwise, he has no sound advice that will work. He tells me I don't have to work, but he also thinks he doesn't have to work either!!

To MIMIVAN:
This is not the type of job I can work during the night hours. But I appreciate your response, as you are in a similar stage as I am; With two kids, and working! You must have a good-paying job that you can afford a sitter in ur house, am I right? It makes it all that easier that ur older one is in gan allready. I don't think I can send away my older one, he'll be under two years when I go back to work after the baby is born. Anyways, I hope it'll work out, I'm still very worried....!!!!

gold21

Tue, May 01 2007, 9:31 am

I dunno.......I would not advocate full time working when u have kid/s. part time if u can work it out with the job that u do, is not gonna make u a bad mommy. in fact, I think that working part time can be a very good idea. !!
but full time work? I dont recommend it....its stressful and can have an effect on u. being a good wife also means being a happy one, and when a woman works full time and has a kid or more to take care of, its really a challenge to maintain ur sanity while gettting everything done. u dont want to become a super stressed wife, and u dont want to be a mom that has little time to spend with her kids, so I would suggest finding a part time working solution. talk it over with dh! explain how u feel. maybe he can do some work on the side? tutor? its not such a bad idea for him to pitch in financially 4 the sake of your sanity and the kids...and he can still learn most of the time....you say that he can be kind of unrealistic about things.well maybe u have to change that, even if it means spelling out the situation 4 him....'ok we have to pay these 6 bills a month and we are making this amount.how do u suggest we cover the bills?' it is not only ur responsibility hon, its his too.....g'luck!

MommyLuv

Tue, May 01 2007, 12:23 pm

amother above warned you-you probably dont want to hear my opinion Exploding anger

, which is that with all due respect to kollel learners, I think men should shoulder the responsibilty of providing for their families and let their wives be mothers and not have to do it all...have the kids....earn income...take care of the house....how is it possible to be there for your kids if you're not there?

a year or two of kollel is one story, but long term, with no thought on the husband's part as to how his children will eat???
I just find that irresponsible. I'm sorry.... What

I know I will get attacked for my views, so just know that I value Torah learning tremendously. But I also value children having the stability of being with their mothers, at least for the first year or two.

amother

Tue, May 01 2007, 2:04 pm

amother wrote:

Let him work as a rebbe, tutor, magid shiur....

those are important "professions" and if he is good at this he should certainly do that, but that's not LEARNING it's WORKING and once you are working might as well get a job that pays well.....kwim? I would think it's "better" to be a (let's say) dentist and work half day and learn half day than to be a rebbi all day.....just my $.02

mimsy7420

Tue, May 01 2007, 3:12 pm

I don't really see what option you have.
If your husband does not bring in any money by getting a job, even part-time such as a rebbe or mashgiach, then it will be up to you to bring the money in, and yes you will have to send your kids to a babysitter.
Something here has got to give.
And as your have more and more kids, its just going to get harder and harder.
And if you can't speak to your DH about this then how are you supposed to make lifestyle changes?

mimivan

Tue, May 01 2007, 10:44 pm

OP:
I don't make so much money, but b'h we're surviving, and with a husband in collel and ajob that is possible to do w/o childcare, I need to pay someone. No other option, really. What I do is I take my baby to her house and it is cheaper. Also, she watches him 4 hours and I work 8 (I find the other 4 when the kids are asleep). If the older one is too young for gan, it can be more complicated.

To the mother who was critical about Collel: (Mommyluv) I don't find your remarks offensive. What a lot of people who disapprove of long-term collel don't realize is that many men do have part-time jobs, or if they learn all day, their stipend can cover something.

Back to OP:
I found that I just had to break down and pay the babysitter. Maybe you can find childcare that is more affordable?

Seraph

Tue, May 01 2007, 11:03 pm

Don't bite me, but...
I'm happy with the arrangement my husband and I made. He was learning before we got married, would continue to learn until I got pregnant. Then he would look for a job, and he has to have a job by the time I have my first kid, because I don't want to send my kids to day care (especially since I worked in one and see what goes on there), so I plan on being at home with the kids.
So since I got preg, hubby got a job as a security guard. He learns all day, checks people when they go in and out, and has a chavrusa for 2 hours after work.
I'm glad he does that because I don't think a woman should have the complete responsibility of money making, as well as raising a family. Not saying that I wouldn't get a job if I could work from home...

From what I learned, in times of tanach, most of the people were farmers, etc, and learned a little each day, and during the off seasons, as well as shmitta. Since golus, people like rambam, rashi, etc, the gedolim, were the ones who worked, as well as finding time to learn. Being into learning isn't mutually exclusive from supporting a family.
I happen to think that what my husband is doing is the most ideal jewish way.
But you're free to do what you think- I won't ever tell anyone to do how I'm doing...
Btw, don't think I'm not into Torah learning- I davka am VERY into it. I'm willing to make it that my 4 hours with him a day are cut back to 2 hours a day with him so that he can have his two hour chavrusa before he comes home... And a lot of time that we are together, we are learning torah together...
I just don't think full time kollel learning is what Hashem had in mind for klal yisrael. Its just not realistic.

Seraph

Wed, May 02 2007, 4:09 am

Oh, and as an added point:
The point of learning torah is to be able to apply it to your life, and if you're spending the whole time learning torah, you're not giving yourself a chance to even apply it to your daily life. Living all pi torah (in all senses of the word) is much harder than just learning torah.

Oh- not that I think NO ONE should be in kollel. I think all guys until they get married SHOULD be in kollel, learning torah to give them that integral core/basis for their marriage, and then learn for a bit afterwords as long as its not too hard on the woman. But once there is more than one kid in the picture, I think thats too hard of a responsibility being put on the wife- be a good mother, housewife, clean and cook, and make the money.

Oh, and for those few illuyim that will end up writing sfarim and changing the face of the torah world, they can learn in kollel for the rest of their lives so long as their wife has no problem with it. But most of the people in kollel won't end up doing that... I think every working guy SHOULD learn at least an hour a day, a bit during the day and a bit at night so he learns torah both day and night. But to spend the whole entire day- morning, afternoon, and night seder in the beis medrash while his wife works her tushy off to raise her 10 kids, make enough money to pay for them, as well as keeping the house up to standards... is a bit much and unreasonable...