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Help with DS
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 8:38 pm
DS is 6. He's a smart, sweet normally well behaved child.

However, when he misbehaves its awful and out of control. He throws things, hits, trashes rooms, hurts people etc. He flips his lid basically. The trigger is usually being slightly tired and being asked to do something (tonight it was getting ready for bed).

We've tried so many things. Sticker charts, taking away privileges, ignoring the behavior, trying to talk to him gently, yelling. When he gets in this mode, he just won't listen and engages in destructive behavior to himself, the people around him and property.

The ONLY thing we have found makes any bit of a difference, is wrapping him in a blanket and holding him down. I hate doing it, but it is literally the only thing that works. As he gets older, its gets harder to do and less effective.

Please provide some concrete ways to help me get through to my son. His behavior is unacceptable.

(I've already read the explosive child)
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Pineapple




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 8:41 pm
Pick him up and put him in his room for 6 min do not say a word to him the entire time
Repeat each time he tantrums
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 8:44 pm
That is challenging!

IME, the first step is to collect and analyze data about what is currently happening.

Does it only happen at bedtime?
Does it happen every night?
If not,what is he doing on the nights he loses it? Does he do that activity on other nights, too?
Does he have everything he needs to comply?
Have you noticed any earlier signs of distress and agitation, like at dinnertime?
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 8:47 pm
6 is old enough for some self awareness... Can you work with him on having him identify when he is feeling like he's losing control, and come up with a cooling off technique that he can implement on his own or with your help? I think the key is prevention.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 8:54 pm
Pineapple,

We've tried that. Either he trashes his room (pulls everything out of the drawers etc) or he runs out. He's fast and hard to catch.

Its usually around bedtime, but not exclusively. Its not every night. It tends to be later in the week, because he's more tired out from the week. I can't put him to bed any earlier unfortunately.

MBV, we tried to come up with some cooling techniques but neither of us have come up with anything that actually works. Do you have any suggestions? When I talk to him the next day and he's in the right mind frame, he doesn't know WHY he does it or how to calm himself down.

I feel like I am failing him as a parent.
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 8:59 pm
I've been having a similar problem with my 4yo in that if she's cranky and I ask her to do something, like get ready for bed, she gets really upset. What I've realized is she doesn't like being "bossed around" and controlled. The last couple of days I've been trying to implement something new - instead of saying please put on pajamas I say something like, "well, we've eaten dinner and it's getting dark out - what do you think you need to do next, before we can read books?" It gives her a feeling of control that SHE'S the one telling ME that it's time to put on pajamas. And instead of hurrying her or nagging her, which again makes her frustrated, we have fun and act silly - "How do you wear pajamas? On the ceiling? Oh, I know, in the bathtub!"

So anyway, maybe this is two separate issues: 1) he doesn't want to be bossed around 2) you need to teach him a better way to channel his frustration and excess energy without hurting people or destroying things.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 9:04 pm
just a thought:

my son used to get really upset/difficult if he was slightly dehydrated. dehydration can go with tired. give him a drink before asking him to do something if you see he's tired. it may make a huge difference. at this point, my son drinks a lot throughout the day on his own, but some kids just don't realize they need liquid. try it, it can't hurt.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 9:14 pm
gp2.0 wrote:
I've been having a similar problem with my 4yo in that if she's cranky and I ask her to do something, like get ready for bed, she gets really upset. What I've realized is she doesn't like being "bossed around" and controlled. The last couple of days I've been trying to implement something new - instead of saying please put on pajamas I say something like, "well, we've eaten dinner and it's getting dark out - what do you think you need to do next, before we can read books?" It gives her a feeling of control that SHE'S the one telling ME that it's time to put on pajamas. And instead of hurrying her or nagging her, which again makes her frustrated, we have fun and act silly - "How do you wear pajamas? On the ceiling? Oh, I know, in the bathtub!"

So anyway, maybe this is two separate issues: 1) he doesn't want to be bossed around 2) you need to teach him a better way to channel his frustration and excess energy without hurting people or destroying things.


I've tried variations of that and it usually ends with "No, I'm not doing what you want." If I "request" and don't "tell" he doesn't want to get ready for bed.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 9:14 pm
mummiedearest wrote:
just a thought:

my son used to get really upset/difficult if he was slightly dehydrated. dehydration can go with tired. give him a drink before asking him to do something if you see he's tired. it may make a huge difference. at this point, my son drinks a lot throughout the day on his own, but some kids just don't realize they need liquid. try it, it can't hurt.


Thanks, I will try that
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Jewishmofm




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 9:22 pm
Is he less stressed/tired/whatever earlier in the evening? I have one DS who has to do everything the minute he walks in the door, before he crashes. We just do the evening a little backwards . . bath and pjs then dinner and then book. I wish I could put him to bed earlier, but he only gets home from school with enough time to rush through everything and then go to bed.
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granolamom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 9:44 pm
amother wrote:
Pineapple,

We've tried that. Either he trashes his room (pulls everything out of the drawers etc) or he runs out. He's fast and hard to catch.

Its usually around bedtime, but not exclusively. Its not every night. It tends to be later in the week, because he's more tired out from the week. I can't put him to bed any earlier unfortunately.

MBV, we tried to come up with some cooling techniques but neither of us have come up with anything that actually works. Do you have any suggestions? When I talk to him the next day and he's in the right mind frame, he doesn't know WHY he does it or how to calm himself down.

I feel like I am failing him as a parent.


I hate to say this, but any 'parenting tip' is going to be just a band-aid unless you address the root of the problem, which appears to be his fatigue.
he is only 6, so while yes, he 'should be' old enough for awareness, its a tall order to expect a 6 yo exhausted child to be self aware enough to opt to cool down when his default position is set to tantrum.

maybe rework your evening routine so that there are fewer triggers? I know that in the real world, blah blah blah, and I know that there is benefit to his learning to control himself even when tired, and I know that you dont want to walk on eggshells. But IF the problem is that he is tired and you cannot put him to bed any earlier, it seems a bit unfair to me to set him up for failure, kwim?

some cooling techniques that sometimes work here are taking a bath, going outside for a few minutes, blowing bubbles or massage. for a 6 yo, I'd recommend YOU suggesting the cool off (and BEFORE he's flipped his lid, you have to recognize the signs of pre-flipping) and possibly accompanying him as well. ime this does not turn into an attention seeking pattern where the child intentionally misbehaves so that the parent will spend time with him. especially since you'd start to wean him from needing your help cooling off once you see its working. if it works. it doesnt work for all of mine.

and most importantly, you are NOT failing him as a parent. you are learning on the job and that is the best you can do. youre in this together, if he knows that then you're doing a great job.
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ruby slippers




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 9:50 pm
Have you shared this with your pediatrician?
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granolamom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 9:54 pm
amother wrote:
I've tried variations of that and it usually ends with "No, I'm not doing what you want." If I "request" and don't "tell" he doesn't want to get ready for bed.


yeah, there's a big difference between 4 yo's and 6 yo's. the 4's are happy just to have some say in the matter. the 6's are clued in enough to want real power. maybe a better question is 'what do you want to do when you are ready for bed, we can read a book or play a game'. I've had no luck giving my 6 yo's power regarding bedtimes, it usually ends badly.
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ValleyMom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 9:57 pm
Sometimes outside help is necessary.

Try to get some suggestions for a good psychologist or behaviorist.

I am NOT a mental health professional; but what you described sounds like he may have some sensory issues. Unless someone on this board is a certified therapist you may not get the suggestions that will work for you.
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Kugglegirl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 12 2014, 10:05 pm
It sounds like he likes & responds to deep pressure.

Have you looked into having an evaluation by an OT who is familiar with sensory processing disorders & sensory integration?

Does he like other deep or full sensory activities like swimming, wrestling, pushing & pulling heavy things-- like furniture? Massages?

Important to get some professional evaluations at this point.

Once you have a better full picture, you can do things that will make his & your life better.

As a parent with some challenging children, I do see as they get older it is possible for some to develop the skills to recognize what they need before they loose it.

I hope you will find the help you need.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Jun 13 2014, 5:05 am
granolamom wrote:
I hate to say this, but any 'parenting tip' is going to be just a band-aid unless you address the root of the problem, which appears to be his fatigue.
he is only 6, so while yes, he 'should be' old enough for awareness, its a tall order to expect a 6 yo exhausted child to be self aware enough to opt to cool down when his default position is set to tantrum.

maybe rework your evening routine so that there are fewer triggers? I know that in the real world, blah blah blah, and I know that there is benefit to his learning to control himself even when tired, and I know that you dont want to walk on eggshells. But IF the problem is that he is tired and you cannot put him to bed any earlier, it seems a bit unfair to me to set him up for failure, kwim?

some cooling techniques that sometimes work here are taking a bath, going outside for a few minutes, blowing bubbles or massage. for a 6 yo, I'd recommend YOU suggesting the cool off (and BEFORE he's flipped his lid, you have to recognize the signs of pre-flipping) and possibly accompanying him as well. ime this does not turn into an attention seeking pattern where the child intentionally misbehaves so that the parent will spend time with him. especially since you'd start to wean him from needing your help cooling off once you see its working. if it works. it doesnt work for all of mine.

and most importantly, you are NOT failing him as a parent. you are learning on the job and that is the best you can do. youre in this together, if he knows that then you're doing a great job.


Unfortunately, he turns in 30 seconds. Literally. I've been looking for pre-flipping signs because I want to avoid the situation. He doesn't really seem to have any.

I don't think I can bring him outside or to blow bubbles at that point. What would I do with the other kids who are in middle of getting ready for bed but aren't old enough to be left unsupervised? Do you have any indoor suggestions?
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amother


 

Post Fri, Jun 13 2014, 5:07 am
w
Kugglegirl wrote:
It sounds like he likes & responds to deep pressure.

Have you looked into having an evaluation by an OT who is familiar with sensory processing disorders & sensory integration?

Does he like other deep or full sensory activities like swimming, wrestling, pushing & pulling heavy things-- like furniture? Massages?

Important to get some professional evaluations at this point.

Once you have a better full picture, you can do things that will make his & your life better.

As a parent with some challenging children, I do see as they get older it is possible for some to develop the skills to recognize what they need before they loose it.

I hope you will find the help you need.


I haven't noticed him having any sensory issues in the past. Would it just manifest itself this one way when tired?

And no, I haven't discussed this with his pediatrician y
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 13 2014, 5:14 am
amother wrote:
Unfortunately, he turns in 30 seconds. Literally. I've been looking for pre-flipping signs because I want to avoid the situation. He doesn't really seem to have any.


Has he always been like this or is this relatively new? How long would you say this has been going on?
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 13 2014, 5:19 am
amother wrote:
Unfortunately, he turns in 30 seconds. Literally. I've been looking for pre-flipping signs because I want to avoid the situation. He doesn't really seem to have any.

I don't think I can bring him outside or to blow bubbles at that point. What would I do with the other kids who are in middle of getting ready for bed but aren't old enough to be left unsupervised? Do you have any indoor suggestions?


I think this may be a key piece of the puzzle. Can you describe your evening routine?
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amother


 

Post Fri, Jun 13 2014, 5:22 am
5*Mom wrote:
Has he always been like this or is this relatively new? How long would you say this has been going on?


This started when he was around 3. When he hit 4, he seemed to outgrow this, and now its back in full swing.
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