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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions
Do you make an early shabbat? Where in the world are you?
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chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 3:56 am
My community is experiencing a debate over early shabbat. I was discussing the issue with a friend and she said it's only a thing in American communities. She made Aliya from Russia and said that they never made an early shabbat in summer camps there (the only place she had experienced shabbat before coming to Israel) and to her knowledge that was the practice in all of Russia. I know other English speaking communities outside of the US accept an early shabbat, and many communities in Israel (her claim was that this is exclusive to Anglo communities in Israel) do the same.

I was wondering when people started having early shabatot, if it is early a custom centered in English speaking countries, what the practice is in Europe and elsewhere. Also I wonder if there is a variation in communities, is this more prevalent among MO, and less so among other groups.

Please share your experiences, thoughts, and knowledge.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:00 am
We make early shabbat (thank g-d) and I am in a yishuv in Gush Etzion.

I do think it is an anglo thing, but I have heard of Israeli communities where they do it as well. My sister lived in a very israeli yishuv and every week they asked around to see if enough families wanted to do early shabbat. Many times there was and sometimes there was not.

I do think that it is getting more of a go now a days not just among anglos or out of israel.
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rainbow dash




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:01 am
I live in Antwerp and we make early shabbot but its not a whole community thing I think its more of an individual thing.
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chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:02 am
rainbow dash wrote:
I live in Antwerp and we make early shabbot but its not a whole community thing I think its more of an individual thing.

Does your shul hold an early minyan (in addition to a regular one, or do you daven at home)?
Is this an acceptable thing?
Have people been having an early shabbat for many generations in your community or is this a new thing?
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:06 am
Originally from Gibraltar (Sephardi community but Anglo), where the whole community makes early Shabbat. Now living in the UK where as far as I am aware most of the communities make Shabbat early though I believe there are some that don't. Different shuls here will often have different times to start though.
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rainbow dash




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:10 am
chanchy123 wrote:
Does your shul hold an early minyan (in addition to a regular one, or do you daven at home)?
Is this an acceptable thing?
Have people been having an early shabbat for many generations in your community or is this a new thing?


I have to ask my Dh about that but yes its a very acceptable thing to do here as shabbot only comes in at 2145. And no its not a new thing.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:12 am
Hadyour friend beeb frum in Russia, she would have known that communities do have early shabbes there as well as in Europe and other places where shabbes starts very late in the summer.
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hila




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:15 am
As for summer camps - they often have their own time.
I know both Lavi and Moshava were one hour different from the rest of the surrounding state.

This made both Shabbat more manageable, and I am sure there were other reasons too.

Maybe that was the case in Russia too - where Shabbat probably comes in and goes out late in the summer.

Growing up in the UK - everyone I knew, except Chabad. made early Shabbat. Otherwise Shabbat would have come in at about 9:30 in the summer. It was bad enough that it went out at 10:30 pm in London and 12 midnight in Scotland

Even here in EY we sometimes do early Shabbat - so the grandkids can eat with us friday night.
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chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:15 am
amother wrote:
Hadyour friend beeb frum in Russia, she would have known that communities do have early shabbes there as well as in Europe and other places where shabbes starts very late in the summer.


That's what I was thinking too. She said the camp was run by Chabad. I wonder if it might be a Chabad thing not to have an early Shabbat. I can't imagine entire communities having a late shabbat in northern locations. I mean I live in Israel, not so far north at all but with Daylight Saving Candle lighting at 7:25 pm is late for my family - and not only the kids, it means that we sit down to dinner at 9 PM or later. So I can imagine that in locations where candle lighting is closer to 10 pm that would be the norm.
I just wonder if people have always done this, or only in recent decades.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:24 am
chabad don't do early shabbat, generally. Although we do since we live in a small community where everyone brings in shabbos early. Since the whole community brings in shabbos early we can't bring it in late even if we wanted to.
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chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:26 am
Raisin wrote:
chabad don't do early shabbat, generally. Although we do since we live in a small community where everyone brings in shabbos early. Since the whole community brings in shabbos early we can't bring it in late even if we wanted to.


Thanks, that's what I suspected, since my friend went to a Chabad camp and I guess the only frum people she knows in Russia are Chabad or connected to Chabad.

Can you please explain why Chabad doesn't do early shabbat?
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Beyla




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:28 am
Also Chabad here, we don't do early shabbos and I must tell you that it's not easy here with shabbos coming at 9:30. Sometimes we don't eat before 11-11:30pm.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:33 am
chanchy123 wrote:
Thanks, that's what I suspected, since my friend went to a Chabad camp and I guess the only frum people she knows in Russia are Chabad or connected to Chabad.

Can you please explain why Chabad doesn't do early shabbat?


I have no idea. Once I was in a summer camp type place (families and kids) and we asked a big chabad rav who was present if we could do early shabbos since it would be very hard for the kids and he said it was fine.

Many shluchim do early shabbat. Almost all the shluchim I know do. If they want people to come to them friday night eating at 11pm is not a very sociable time.

I'm pretty sure my parents chabad shul has an early minyan friday night for families with young kids.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:34 am
Lots of/ most places in London do early shabbos, although there are one or two, including chabad, who offer a later minyan. Early means anything from 7pm till 8:30pm, earliest candle lighting this week was 7:35, shul finished at 8:15, started meal at 8:45. Shabbos went out at 10:25pm, dh wasn't home until 11pm.

Shabbos comes in so late here, that it would be v difficult to wait to eat until 10:30pm every week. Shavuos was hard enough.

It is wierd though when you see people driving around when you are walking home from shul.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:35 am
I live in Europe and practically the whole community makes early Shabbos. I think there's one shul that has a later kabolas Shabbos.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 4:37 am
Late shabbos can be very convenient too. Someone told me they went to scotland and asked to be put up with a shomer shabbat family. Late Friday afternoon the host announced they were going to the cinema. The guest was horrified: "I thought you kept shabbat!"

"We do" he host replied, Shabbat is so late we can go to the cinema and be back in time for candle lighting"
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tryinghard




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 11:17 am
Raisin wrote:
chabad don't do early shabbat, generally. Although we do since we live in a small community where everyone brings in shabbos early. Since the whole community brings in shabbos early we can't bring it in late even if we wanted to.


In my community, at the moment, every minyan makes early shabbos. I was under the impression that that meant I have absolutely no choice about it. However, when I asked a rav, he said that if it's for convenience (as opposed to keeping one's business open longer), it is not a problem - other than the fact that dh then has no minyan to daven with. So if things are really crazy, we will sometimes make "late" (regular) shabbos. AYLOR, you never know what they will tell you.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 11:47 am
We were v grateful for late shabbat last summer when we got stuck and a 3 hour drive took 9 hours, rang round looking for the latest minyan and it was Chabad. BH we just made it.

We did have to check with our Rav as we normally make early shabbat so there is a question over whether you can change. We never usually travel on erev shabbat, but had a chasuna in one city and a bar mitzva to get back for.
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Culturedpearls




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 11:59 am
Chabad in general doesn't but as was pointed out most shluchim do.
Here some chabad shuls have an early minyan in the summer.
It's not a US thing to the best of my knowledge . Hungarians who daven mincha & maariv right after each other bring shabbos in early.
The chassidish Hungarian shuls here all bring shabbos in early.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jun 16 2014, 12:04 pm
Russia is big. In the North, in Summer, it's sometimes never really night, so you need to make an "early Shabbos". I know many Chabad family in Saint-Petersburg who make an early Shabbos. I did it myself.
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