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AGT-The school responds
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 24 2014, 2:09 pm
amother wrote:
Why do you feel that you are entitled to an apology from this boy?

Do you watch AGT on a regular basis? Did you watch it that night? Or did you watch this clip to see the kid tell dirty jokes? And if the latter, what does that say about you, that knowing what it was, you watched? Maybe each and every one of us who watched the clip knowing that it was a Jewish boy telling dirty jokes should be doing tshuva, asking Hashem for forgiveness. Maybe each of us should be asking the CHILD for forgiveness, because we are the ones who purposely increased the magnitude of his error.

Do you live in his community? Do you know him? Do your kids attend that school? Do you attend his shul? Do your kids hang out with him or his siblings?

I don't get why people who only know about this because they heard that this child committed a "chilul Hashem" and couldn't wait to see it themselves, so they could condemn him, feel they're entitled to an apology, or even to know what is going on between him and those who do know him. What he says to his principal, his teachers, his rabbis, his peers ... that's personal. What he says to Hashem is personal, too.

From what I hear, he's actually a really nice kid from a really nice family that is devoted to Judaism. Let's hope this is the worst thing he ever does, and that he and his family will be laughing about it at the bar mitzvahs of his own sons.

1. I saw the clip when a friend emailed it to me with the subject line = "what do you think about this?", no extra info. Afterwards, I saw this thread title and knew what it was about.

2. I do not think I am "entitled" to a personal apology from Josh Orlian. I do think he should apologize to those whom he offended, and for committing chillul hashem.

3. I do not live in his community -- you can see where I live because it says so in the info that appears when I post UNDER MY USERNAME. My kids do not hang out with him, nor would I want them to.

4. Why are you amother?


Last edited by DrMom on Tue, Jun 24 2014, 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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b from nj




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 24 2014, 2:10 pm
rosehill wrote:
Maybe I read a different letter, but I thought that was EXACTLY what Rabbi Lookstein did!
He condemned the behaviour unequivocally, and made it clear he expects it not to happen again.
This was a letter that was sent to the entire parent body, and which Rabbi Lookstein may have (correctly) assumed to be forwarded on. It strongly implies that further conversations were had privately with the boy and his parents, where he may have expressed just the outrage you're all clamoring for.

But that's not our business.

Some perspective. Josh didn't kill anyone, didn't burn down a building, didn't molest anyone, didn't steal millions of dollars from the government. He told some dumb dirty jokes. Not his, WDS's, Modern Orthodoxy's or Yiddishkeit's finest hour.
But hardly the crime of the century.

The kids we should be worrying about now are Eyal, Gilad, and Naftali. Let Josh's 15 minutes of fame end.


Josh is coming back for round 2. His 15 minutes of fame is far from over & as R. Lookstein himself wrote, viewer discretion will be advised when watching that as well. Not looking forward to chillul hashem #2.
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 24 2014, 2:11 pm
Well, these things are taped in advance...
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jun 24 2014, 2:38 pm
b from nj wrote:
Just for the record, I was innocently watching b/c my 15 year old DD called me & my DH over to watch with her b/c a kid with a yarmulka was gonna be performing. We were all anxiously awaiting being proud of a fellow Jewish teen (just like when Edon performed last year) & we were seriously stunned & horrified by the words that were coming out of his mouth. & please don't tell me what a wonderful family he is from b/c I saw the clip posted of his dad telling the sword swallowing joke at a comedy club in 2011. You want to think this is a one time mistake? Fine but frankly I don't believe it & although I do not know this family, seeing their behavior on TV made me lose any respect I might have had for them (not that they need my respect) but anyhow...


You don't know the family.

I have many friends in common with the family, so I think that I can judge what type of family they are a lot better than you can, based upon a couple of clips.

And, by the way, the fact that I clearly know these things is why I'm amother.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 24 2014, 2:42 pm
Dear Parents,

We've already kicked Shia out of yeshiva and had him committed to a mental institution. Fortunately, aside from Shia none of the other bochurim know what a television is, so the kedusha of our yeshiva hasn't been compromised one iota. Rest assured that we've already cashed his parents' checks.

Sincerely,
Mdoif and the Hanhola
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 24 2014, 2:43 pm
DrMom wrote:
I do not think I am "entitled" to a personal apology from Josh Orlian. I do think he should apologize to those whom he offended, and for committing chillul hashem.


Give him some time. He's a kid and chinuch is a process.
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 24 2014, 2:44 pm
b from nj wrote:
Josh is coming back for round 2. His 15 minutes of fame is far from over & as R. Lookstein himself wrote, viewer discretion will be advised when watching that as well. Not looking forward to chillul hashem #2.


Pssst, you don't have to watch round 2.

Will she or won't she?
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fmt4




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 24 2014, 3:57 pm
Ugh. People like mdoif make me so sad. To know that there people out there who actually think that g-d wants us to show our love to him by telling a 12 year old that he is a lost cause... People who truly believe that g-d will clap his hands and watch with nachas as they humiliate and judge people. That he is preparing their beautiful Olam Haba in reward for all their great work in making sure that any sin their fellow Jews do are very quickly condemned and they are given the proper harsh treatment they deserve. ( except when the people have beards or rabbi before their name, that's a different story.)

Well guess what mdoif, and everyone like you. You aren't Pinchas, and one day you'll hopefully realize that g-d doesn't want your zealousness. You are doing nothing for g-d or anyone else. So enjoy your high perch in your self righteous cloud while you can, cuz it ain't gonna do nothing for you later.
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b from nj




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 24 2014, 5:44 pm
5*Mom wrote:
Pssst, you don't have to watch round 2.

Will she or won't she?


I may or may not. I honestly don't even know but even if I don't I'm not the type to bury my head in the sand & pretend that all is well just because I happened to not watch something firsthand. If his next performance will be even more of a chillul Hashem with even more vulgar jokes, how sad is that regardless of whether or not I do or don't watch it?!

& for the record, I'm not among the ppl. here who say that he should be burned at the stake for what he did.

His actions as a fellow MO-appearing Jew reflected badly on our community (& the greater Orthodox community as a whole) & that is what I objected to. I never said that his school should kick him to the curb & shun him. I think the letter sent out by WDS was appropriate but I'm not sure what it will have accomplished especially if he will appear once again with more of what he did last week & continue to shock the judges with what comes out of a 12 year old MO kid's mouth.
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 24 2014, 5:53 pm
b from nj wrote:
I may or may not. I honestly don't even know but even if I don't I'm not the type to bury my head in the sand & pretend that all is well just because I happened to not watch something firsthand. If his next performance will be even more of a chillul Hashem with even more vulgar jokes, how sad is that regardless of whether or not I do or don't watch it?!


You're being kind of weird about this. Just don't watch.

Honestly, even if he were expelled, humiliated, tarred and feathered, and run out of town, the next round is still going to air. So I'm not sure what constructive action you're looking for.
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b from nj




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 24 2014, 6:08 pm
sequoia wrote:
You're being kind of weird about this. Just don't watch.

Honestly, even if he were expelled, humiliated, tarred and feathered, and run out of town, the next round is still going to air. So I'm not sure what constructive action you're looking for.


My not watching will not effect whether or not he will embarrass our community even more than he already did. Like I said, whether I watch it or not is not the issue here, the issue is how badly he will further humiliate our community. That is it.

As I said earlier, I never asked for him to be expelled, humiliated, tarred & feathered or run out of town.

I am just cringing already & unfortunately there is probably not much that can be done about that. All I can hope is that his act will be cleaned up. Time will tell.

Edited to add that I agree with Dr. Mom above who felt that the letter should have mentioned the chilul Hashem aspect since that is the most major issue of this whole situation.
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Frumdoc




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 24 2014, 6:33 pm
I think it was a wonderful letter, hitting just the right note of balance between clearly stating this was not acceptable or Torahdik, but allowing individuals to err, and including this as part of his/her/ all of our educational progress in life and Torah values. Without rejecting or hurting the child or family.

You catch more flies with honey, and this is the approach that is publicly being taken, rather than the reactionary and far more dangerous path of humiliation and mudslinging that can only have one result: that Joah or his friends, family or others will walk away from orthodoxy because of their experience.

Think about what is better long term, that a young man makes a mistake, however publically, and is forgiven, also publicly, realises the "error of his ways" and becomes a beacon of hope and dedication to the kehillah because of this experience.

Or he is thrown out, parents thrown out of shul, never gets a barmitzvah because he is " that kid off AGT", learns to hate orthodoxy and all who practise it, and becomes another of those pain filled, angst ridden OTD individuals who post all over the internet about the evils of orthodox judaism, write hate filled autobiographies and spend their lives trying to heal the broken 12 year old child who was condemned by an entire community as irrevocably sinful and evil.

Which would you chose, bearing in mind option 1 involves some forgiveness right now, some love and some tolerance of more insults that in the big wide world really is 15 minutes of fame, which he is halfway through right now, and which it is partly our responsibility, as those discussing it online, to minimise the impact of.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 24 2014, 11:00 pm
5*Mom wrote:
Give him some time. He's a kid and chinuch is a process.

Yes, of course.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 25 2014, 5:40 am
How can we expect him to understand anything when his own parents are teaching him wrong? Sigh. sooooo sad. He's a victim. Every Jewish child deserves at least the basics of a Yiddishe education, which includes derech eretz (first, some would argue!)
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 25 2014, 4:47 pm
Ruchel wrote:
How can we expect him to understand anything when his own parents are teaching him wrong? Sigh. sooooo sad. He's a victim. Every Jewish child deserves at least the basics of a Yiddishe education, which includes derech eretz (first, some would argue!)


So many people lack education by example in important areas like child rearing and marriage and yet the examples of others and the guidance of others can help correct the ship they would be on if their parents were their only example. Imagine a life without neighbors, friends,teachers, community members, rabbanim, sports coaches, or any of the other people out there that have influenced young ppl to greater heights. If the school takes an ongoing roll, there is hope despite the parent's shortcomings.
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