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Forum -> Recipe Collection -> Challah and Breads
Trying (and failing) to capture wild yeast for sourdough
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 1:51 pm
and I am failing. I think it might be that I emit something that makes then fail to come to life. or maybe it's the air in brooklyn?

I just bought pro "seeds" for a starter, so we'll see if that works. as for the one I'm supposed to easily make by myself, I'm an inch from admitting failure.

has anyone done well with this?
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 1:52 pm
headline was supposed to be "trying" to capture... tho' I'm also an inch from crying
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SorGold




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 2:59 pm
I have made my own successful starter and am more than willing to try and help. Depending where you live, I would be happy to share. Right now its organic (not whole wheat) starter that is fed with a 50/50 ratio.
I have a batch of sourdough crackers on table right now for snack. Yum Very Happy
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 4:02 pm
SorGold wrote:
I have made my own successful starter and am more than willing to try and help. Depending where you live, I would be happy to share. Right now its organic (not whole wheat) starter that is fed with a 50/50 ratio.
I have a batch of sourdough crackers on table right now for snack. Yum Very Happy


thank you for the offer, much appreciated and kind. however, I am DETERMINED to make this work.

tricks? tips?
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penguin




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 4:22 pm
I have a friend who owns a bakery. She says once you get once batch of sourdough, you have to be really busy with it if you want to keep it going. Is this a one-time try, Vintage, or do you hope to keep it up until Pesach?
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 4:43 pm
Meh. I don't trust the whole leave-it-open-to-the-air thing. I started with packaged yeast.
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 4:47 pm
penguin wrote:
I have a friend who owns a bakery. She says once you get once batch of sourdough, you have to be really busy with it if you want to keep it going. Is this a one-time try, Vintage, or do you hope to keep it up until Pesach?


till pesach!
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 4:48 pm
zaq wrote:
Meh. I don't trust the whole leave-it-open-to-the-air thing. I started with packaged yeast.


I normally bake bread with packaged yeast, but I really want the sourdough taste.
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little_mage




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 4:54 pm
I've had good luck with the starter recipe from Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads. It uses pineapple juice. I adore all of Reinhart's books for bread baking. Once I got it going, I haven't found it too fincky. And I sell mine for Pesach. No way am I getting rid of it and starting all over.
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 4:57 pm
little_mage wrote:
I've had good luck with the starter recipe from Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads. It uses pineapple juice. I adore all of Reinhart's books for bread baking. Once I got it going, I haven't found it too fincky. And I sell mine for Pesach. No way am I getting rid of it and starting all over.


yes, am doing the the pineapple one as well. (am currently on #3. the other two died.)

(if I actually ever get it going I will sell it at pesach. the likelihood that I have made it work before pesach, well, that's questionable.)
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Rutabaga




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 5:04 pm
Maybe you can buy some starter from a local bakery and then keep it going yourself.

Or is that cheating?
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 5:18 pm
Rutabaga wrote:
Maybe you can buy some starter from a local bakery and then keep it going yourself.

Or is that cheating?


lol. that's kind of what I'm doing with the "seeds" (mine are actually not seeds, but kosher starter from king arthur). that one is only on its second day.
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SorGold




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 5:22 pm
I had success with starting the first 4 feedings with rye flour. Then I switched to white flour. I didn't use any fruit juice or grapes/raisins.
I never use tap water due to the chlorine having the ability to kill the yeast. I only use filtered water. Glass container works best. Mix with a whisk to aerate. Leave lightly covered.
Can you describe your method/ feeding schedule/ amounts etc.
Are you following Reinhardts method exactly?
What is happening that is not working?
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SorGold




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 5:24 pm
I had no idea king Arthur starter culture was kosher. I had asked around for kosher culture and a few kashrus agencies couldn't tell me of one...so I just made one from scratch lol.
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 5:42 pm
SorGold wrote:
I had no idea king Arthur starter culture was kosher. I had asked around for kosher culture and a few kashrus agencies couldn't tell me of one...so I just made one from scratch lol.



I asked a frum friend for her starter b/c I couldn't find a kosher one, and she said hers came from king arthur and that it was OU. she gave to me in a plastic cup. but now that I'm looking on the OU website--which I didn't do till just now--it says it is when it's marked as such. I'm assuming hers was. no idea when she bought it.
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 5:43 pm
SorGold wrote:
I had success with starting the first 4 feedings with rye flour. Then I switched to white flour. I didn't use any fruit juice or grapes/raisins.
I never use tap water due to the chlorine having the ability to kill the yeast. I only use filtered water. Glass container works best. Mix with a whisk to aerate. Leave lightly covered.
Can you describe your method/ feeding schedule/ amounts etc.
Are you following Reinhardts method exactly?
What is happening that is not working?


I'm following the recipe from the fresh loaf to a T, tho' using spring water instead of distilled. (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/233/wild-yeast-sourdough-starter)
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Mishmish




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 7:53 pm
I make sourdough with GF flour, but since I took the method from one recommended for wheat, I think it should work. I've been loosely following the method Sandor Katz recommends in his books. "High proportion feedings" is what he calls it. I don't know how that compares to the method you are using.

I start with a cup of spring water and a cup of flour. I think freshly ground is helpful (and tastes better)--not sure if that's an option for you. I grind the flour in a blender.

Anyway, mix the flour and water in glass mason jar and cover with cheesecloth. Stir it a few times a day for a day or three, until you see little bubbles. Once you see those, take 3/4 of the starter and discard--you can use it to make bread or pancakes, etc. replenish starter with water and flour, stir and cover. I leave it on the counter or a shelf.

I have found that taking off most of the starter each time leads to a more vigorous and less overwhelmingly sour sourdough (still distinctively sourdough).

I've also found that the starter prefers an ambient temperature of between 80 and 90 degrees. I had to start a new one recently and it wasn't going as fast as I wanted it to. I put it outside (with a glass bowl covering in addition to cheesecloth) and it came to life in just a few hours. I think it was just too cold inside.

Once you get it going, I've found the maintenance process to be pretty easy and cyclic, but I bake several times a week, so the process "feeds" on itself.

I read a paper somewhere that starters adapt to their local flour/environment conditions very quickly. A "San Francisco" starter lost it's "San Francisco yeast" within three days of being transported across the country IRRC. Kind of interesting.

Good luck with the starter. The first time I did it, it took about 5 days before it got going. So sometimes it's just a question of time.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 8:10 pm
I thought you had to keep it warm, or slightly warm.

I thought you had to give it sugar?

Sure it's hard. That's why giving some that worked and tasted good to a friend was such a meaningful gift.

So don't feel bad.

An old recipe I have never used:

active dry yeast, 1 1/4 ounces
warm water, 2 1/2 cups
all purpose flour, 2 cups
sugar or honey, 1 tbsp.

Give it ten days.

When you don't use it, give it a teaspoon of sugar once a week.

When you use a cup, put in 3/4 cup each water and flour, and a teaspoon of sugar.

IT'S eating the sugar, you aren't.


Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Thu, Jun 26 2014, 10:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 8:18 pm
rachel99 wrote:
I make sourdough with GF flour, but since I took the method from one recommended for wheat, I think it should work. I've been loosely following the method Sandor Katz recommends in his books. "High proportion feedings" is what he calls it. I don't know how that compares to the method you are using.

I start with a cup of spring water and a cup of flour. I think freshly ground is helpful (and tastes better)--not sure if that's an option for you. I grind the flour in a blender.

Anyway, mix the flour and water in glass mason jar and cover with cheesecloth. Stir it a few times a day for a day or three, until you see little bubbles. Once you see those, take 3/4 of the starter and discard--you can use it to make bread or pancakes, etc. replenish starter with water and flour, stir and cover. I leave it on the counter or a shelf.

I have found that taking off most of the starter each time leads to a more vigorous and less overwhelmingly sour sourdough (still distinctively sourdough).

I've also found that the starter prefers an ambient temperature of between 80 and 90 degrees. I had to start a new one recently and it wasn't going as fast as I wanted it to. I put it outside (with a glass bowl covering in addition to cheesecloth) and it came to life in just a few hours. I think it was just too cold inside.

Once you get it going, I've found the maintenance process to be pretty easy and cyclic, but I bake several times a week, so the process "feeds" on itself.

I read a paper somewhere that starters adapt to their local flour/environment conditions very quickly. A "San Francisco" starter lost it's "San Francisco yeast" within three days of being transported across the country IRRC. Kind of interesting.

Good luck with the starter. The first time I did it, it took about 5 days before it got going. So sometimes it's just a question of time.


I read that about SF as well.

I'm on day 6, and nothing all that exciting is happening. but the aroma changed overnight, much more yeasty. slightly bubbly.

(I'm not grinding my flour. you have more patience that I)

I've used all the recipes for the pineapple juice starter, and have yet to have one that works (tho' one tasted really good when I tossed it in a loaf with some actual yeast). I started with the fruit juice ones because the regular ones never had the flavor I was searching for--I want super sour SF type bread. sigh.

I once heard about a woman and daughter who kept failing at making bread. they took a class together, and only their loaves slumped into hockey pucks. turns out they had some kind of yeast-killing property on their skin. (could be an urban legend, or could be me!).
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Mishmish




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 26 2014, 8:43 pm
As I understand it, most of the yeasts are on the grain already and it's the beneficial bacteria that gets captured from the air. Only reason I mentioned fresh flour. The type I use is gross if store-bought, so that's why I blender grind it.

Are you discarding a substantial portion every day? If not, I would try that. It needs a fresh supply of food to get vigorous.

Also, juice or sugar are not necessary. They might make it easier, but they are not needed. I only add sweet during the bulk fermentation stage and only because it helps the flavor balance.

To make it more sour, once you get the bubbling going, before you take some off to bake, try stirring it up so the "sour water" part makes it into your loaf. I do the opposite because my kids prefer it less strongly sour, so I scoop off the yeasty part at the top to use, then stir the remainder, add to it, etc.

It will get there. Don't give up.

One thing I recall from the Katz book is that he said sometimes adding a few unwashed organic berries (blueberries or blackberries I think) can help get things going--you remove the berries once it starts bubbling. Yeasts live on most produce--sometimes there is a whitish cast on blueberries--apparently that's what it is. I haven't tried that yet (don't love the idea of unwashed fruit).
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