Charedi women- tell me something great about MO

amother

Tue, Jul 01 2014, 10:22 pm

amother wrote:

I grew up MO. I miss being MO.

I like the dovening better. I miss singing at the Shabbos table. I miss the kiddushes at the shuls.

There are more clothing choices when you don't have to hide your collarbone. I miss Godiva, Dunkin Donuts, and Starbucks. I regret my children won't go to a decent school and that I must supplement their education privately.

There are more recreational choices. No one is shocked when I did things a normal secular person would do.

No one is trying to control what you read or what music you listen to. No one tells you the radio is bad and public libraries are forbidden. I could express my thoughts freely when I was MO. I could even find like minded individuals IRL.

I would prefer to live in a community where people pay their taxes and the whole community isn't on Medicaid and their homes are not titled other people's names to collect section 8. MO communities teach civic responsibility and that fraud is bad.

What a creative way to accomplish the opposite of what these threads are trying to accomplish!

amother

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 12:03 am

amother wrote:

What a creative way to accomplish the opposite of what these threads are trying to accomplish!

I did nothing wrong or creative. If you have an agenda, I am not aware of it so I couldn't create a way to defeat it. I followed the thread title and the opening post. I gave voice to the fact that MO ladies are not all the time being told to "stifle yourself".

If you start a thread "Charedi women - tell me something great about Charedi, I could write positive things there. This thread isn't a compare and contrast thread. I stand by everything I wrote.

amother

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 2:10 am

amother wrote:

I married a man with a different heshkofa.

Is it your Hashkafa?

Quote:

If you start a thread "Charedi women - tell me something great about Charedi, I could write positive things there. This thread isn't a compare and contrast thread

So overall you are happy with your choice? I live in EY, If someone asked me what's great about America I could say Ummm, Ummm - they have great public transportation Smile

But I'm positive about my decision to live here. Are you happy?

Raisin

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 5:37 am

freidasima wrote:

Raisin I have relatives whose kids are Ramaz Graduates and went straight to Chardal yishuvim where they learned in Yeshiva for a year or two in EY and got on fine. The issue is politics not religion. As long as these boys were right wing, and they were, they got on just fine with the chardal boys their own age.

I'm sure that happens. And vice versa. But I hope you will agree there is a huge range in dress style (in particular), emphasis on gashmius (or not) and other issues among various groups who call themselves M.O. Likewise with chareidi. Saying: all MO women dress in very hippy style, loose clothing is inaccurate. Some do. Some don't.

amother

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 8:29 am

amother wrote:

I married a man with a different heshkofa.

Is it your Hashkafa?
Quote:
If you start a thread "Charedi women - tell me something great about Charedi, I could write positive things there. This thread isn't a compare and contrast thread

So overall you are happy with your choice? I live in EY, If someone asked me what's great about America I could say Ummm, Ummm - they have great public transportation Smile

But I'm positive about my decision to live here. Are you happy?

It is my hashkafa now. 'My husband's minhugim are our family's minhugim. This doesn't mean that I don't privately long to sing to welcome in Shabbos or to doven in Shul each week.

I am happy. I wouldn't trade my life for anyone's. Our SB is wonderful. I love my friends and neighbors. My husband thrives in our community and he would not be happy in a MO community.

amother

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 8:33 am

Quote:

I grew up MO. I miss being MO.

I like the dovening better. I miss singing at the Shabbos table.

Me too. I really miss that "vayehi binsoa", "etz chaim hee" etc. Not that I get to shul in time for that too often these days. But, come to think of it, when we lived OOT for a few years I did make to shul pretty regularly, and I am pretty sure they sang more.

out-of-towner

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 8:41 am

amother wrote:

Quote:

I grew up MO. I miss being MO.

I like the dovening better. I miss singing at the Shabbos table.

Me three! I miss the singing in the MO Shul I grew up in!

I also admire their way of making everyone feel comfortable. my MO friends and family know that I do things differently, but they are so accepting and loving!

Also, their passion for Yiddushkiet and E"Y and keeping their traditions alive is amazing!

PinkFridge

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 10:29 am

Scrabble123, I think she misses being able to sing, regardless of who else is at her table. (There is a mekor for this.)
As far as singing in shul, I miss it too, and enjoy it when I go to YI. I don't know what other local shuls have singing, I suspect there are some. The shul I grew up - not a YI type - had singing, and even now, years later, with a yeshivish rav, they still sing. I hope they'll continue even after the old timers all move away or otherwise move on.

naturalmom5

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 10:35 am

amother wrote:

What a creative way to accomplish the opposite of what these threads are trying to accomplish!

The truth is the truth . I look forward to going away every single Yom Tov and daverning in mo Shuls and hearing the sermons . That's how I stay sane

Zehava

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 11:17 am

So I don't have much experience with MO but we were in Memphis once for the weekend. The community is mostly MO. I think. Elementary school is co-ed and high schools share an outdoor space. The shul we davened in was conservadox. It was such a nice experience. Maybe it was more the out-of-town factor, but we got so many on the spot invitations for Shabbos meals. We attended a kiddush and everyone was so friendly we really felt like family!! Also the shul experience was really different and kinda nice. The way they have a kids program so the parents can daven in peace. And the way everyone is so quiet and respectful.

sky

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 11:55 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

The truth is the truth . I look forward to going away every single Yom Tov and daverning in mo Shuls and hearing the sermons . That's how I stay sane

I know this is OT, but have you ever tried the new Sons of Israel (on route 9 between 5th and 6th)? They sing, the rabbi speaks, they have a relaxed kiddush every shabbos. People are very friendly and happy there.

Edited to change old shul to new shul.

Last edited by sky on Wed, Jul 02 2014, 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 1:18 pm

I'm the Zemiros-misser above. Slightly OT here, but someone above asked for elaboration.

My sons will not sing zemiros if I sing. (because they also wouldn't daven or learn if I am singing).

Also I BH have sons-in-law who come for Shabbos often.
When it comes to a Yom Tov, I joke that my kids arrange it so I have at least one son in law first days and one last day so I can't ever sing.

Honestly I can't carry a tune so that may be why...

I recently asked a choshuva rebbetzin if she sings when her boys are singing. She said her husband said zemiros are fine but not pesukim.

(Recently my daughter told me my son in law asked the Rov I ask my shaylos to if it's a problem that his MIL is maavira sedra out loud. I don't say it with trop but there could be some sing-song to my voice. So now I do it when the men are in shul.)

NOTE: those who allow women to sing when men are present, at the table or in shul, have a halachic basis, as the gemara says (I think WRT problems if you are blowing shofar & s/o upstairs is also blowing shofar) - trei kolei lo mishtamei - you can hear or distinguish two voices.

So that's one of the reasons I wish we were more to the MO side than we are... but, like a previous poster, when I married DH I committed to more or less following his lead in spirituality (though I do take some liberties of my own here and there.)

amother

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 7:05 pm

amother wrote:

Would it be too personal to ask you to say what liberties you take? I am the first amother who posted about missing singing.

amother

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 7:19 pm

Quote:

Would it be too personal to ask you to say what liberties you take?

Well, since it's on-topic, showing things I appreciate about MO, I will mention a few.

I mostly listen to shiurim from the MO world. And I find them very respectful of women and their intellects. For instance, when speaking to women, many will give out source materials.

(I've also purchased books that are more from the MO side than would be acceptable where I live e.g. Mrs. Meiselman's "Soloveitchik Heritage". I had actually mentioned it to DH and he suggested I not buy it. But some time later I told him I was going to. Because I am, after all, an adult!) I also bought a book on Jewish genetic diseases by a doctor who's involved with the Yoatzot website. I would look up the name now but my browser might crash in the middle!

I also appreciate and sometimes consult the Yoatzot site. Not necessarily for a psak, which my DH would not appreciate, but for my own personal need to understand something.

amother

Wed, Jul 02 2014, 9:05 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

Would it be too personal to ask you to say what liberties you take?

Thank you for sharing this with me. I just looked at the site you mentioned. I hadn't thought about doing this before, I don't see why not. My husband is open minded and supportive of any intellectual pursuits I have. He would order books for me.

Like the other posters I love when I have an opportunity to go to a YI. I feel at home. Part of it is I am comfortable and part of it is that women are seen and heard. My Shul doesn't have a ladies section for Shabbos. I miss being part of a Shul.