Putting daughter in Public school b/c can't afford tuition

amother

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 9:20 am

attended a public preschool so she could get services that the Jewish schools couldn't provide. I met her primary teacher before she started, and explained that my child would only be able to eat kosher. I don't think her teachers had ever had a frum student before, but they were incredibly respectful of Jewish laws. They made sure to let me know in advance when they were providing snacks, so I could send my own, and also stocked kosher prepackaged treats. When the class made x-mas tree ornaments, they helped my daughter make a snowman instead of Santa.

I considered signing up to be a room parent to make the snack issue easier, but they were so accommodating that it wasn't necessary.

They also told me in advance when Halloween costume parades, Holiday concerts, and Santa visits were planned, so I could keep her home for these events. (With the teacher's permission, I sent her to school in her costume on shushan Purim so she wouldn't feel that she missed out on Halloween). One year, though, she came home with a candy cane and told me that "a man in red and white clothes" gave it to her. So I explained that some parents like to tell their kids that a person named Santa gives them presents, but the presents are really from the parents, and that sometimes adults dress up as Santa. I told her it was like the Tooth Fairy, which she already knew about. (Note: I knew my daughter wouldn't share this with her classmates).

My daughter received a wonderful education, and is completely mainstreamed now in a Jewish school.

It might be a good idea to find out if there's an orientation for new students. If not, see if you can arrange a visit to the school so your daughter will know what to expect. Also, you can try to contact the teacher before school starts to explain about kashrus and other issues.

Public schools often have strict rules regarding missing class, so you should make sure to let the school know which days your child will miss due to holidays, and find out what documentation is required for an excused absence. I sent my daughter to school during chol hamoed unless we were going on a family trip.

I don't think the fact that one child is attending public school needs to be an issue. Explain to your daughter that this is the best situation for her right now, and emphasize the positive aspects (shorter day, possible shorter commute). Try to plan special activities with her during her vacations when her siblings are at school.

My daughter and my other children understood that she would be attending a non-Jewish school so she could get the services she needed. Of course when I told her about it I emphasized the aspects that would appeal to her--for example, she loved riding on a school bus every day, something her siblings didn't do. My other children are not all in the same school system, so they didn't have trouble understanding that different people are best suited for different schools. Sometimes my other children made comments about issues that came up, so I had to remind them to discuss this with me privately, not in front of my daughter. I was very conscious about that because a friend of mine had told me that she had sent her son to a special education public school, but had to pull him out because his older siblings teased him about going to public school until he refused to go. I didn't want my daughter to lost out on a valuable opportunity so I wanted to be proactive about this.

Amother because I've discussed a lot of this with people I know.

SYA

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 9:26 am

Sending a child to public school is a form of shmad / assimilation. However the yeshiva that throws out a child because of money is even worse than public school. Yeshivas that teach children that money is more important than saving a life (spiritually and physically), raise selfish apikorsim devoid if any yiras shomayim. The yiddishkeit taught is hollow and they cannot be considered a true frum school.

I would look into another yeshiva that promotes yiras shomayim both in mitzvos to Hashem and ahavas yisroel, and that is accepting regardless if status. Public school is really something to be avoided at all costs. That may mean compromising on new friends, external hashkafas, minhagim etc, but at least there is a better chance the child will grow into a healthy frum person.

granolamom

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 9:32 am

OP, I just want to say that I think your dd will be ok.
Her yiras shamayim is not dependent on where she goes to school. you sound like a wise woman, I am sure you will do your best to meet all of her needs, just as you most likely have been doing up until now.
I do not think that 'singling out' one child is as bad as it sounds. each child gets his own circumstance, its not 'even steven' across the board when parenting. our choices for each child depend on that child, his place in the family, and the family's situation at that time. It sounds to me like you have given this much thought and although not your first choice, you've come to a place where this is your best choice. I wish you much hatzlocha, and offer my virtual support. I suspect you will face many naysayers. Like the rest of us, you can only do your best. I dont believe that even if affordable, the yeshiva system best serves all of our children anyway. Maybe Hashem has a Plan for this child, and this is where she is supposed to be for the time being. who knows. Try not to let fear of the unknown creep into your heart. It is hard to do something different and forge your own path, its hard when well meaning people try to play devils advocate incase you havent already though of the downside and possible dangers. I'm sure you have. hakol byidei shamayim, so long as you are still there doing what mothers do, I suspect she will do just fine.

as for kodesh studies, chinuch.org has lots of materials, but personally I would just spend some time thinking about what you'd like her to cover this year, and think about how you'd like to cover it. if you can afford a tutor that's great but even if not, you can cover so much in one shabbos afternoon or even just five to ten minutes every evening. kids learn very quickly when its one on one and catered to their interest and competency level.

amother

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 10:03 am

I'm the last amother. I accidentally cut off the word "My daughter" from the beginning of my post.

I just want to second what granolamom said. I was really nervous about sending my daughter to public preschool, and didn't know of anyone frum who'd sent to our district. She was the only frum student in her class, and her teacher hadn't even had a frum student before. I'm sure people thought I was hurting my daughter by sending her to public school. It was a difficult for me to do something so different from what people I knew had done.

It was also difficult because I'd kept my other children home with me for most of their preschool years, and they'd succeeded and thrived once they started school. But I realized that this child needed a different sort of education than her siblings.

I know now that it was the best thing I could have done. By the time she was ready for Pre1a she had grown and accomplished more than I had ever thought possible, and was ready to be mainstreamed in a Jewish school. I dread to think of where she'd be now if I would've short-sightedly tried to shoehorn her into a Jewish preschool that didn't provide what she needed, or kept her at home.

SRS

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 10:09 am

SYA wrote:

Yeshivas that teach children that money is more important than saving a life (spiritually and physically), raise selfish apikorsim devoid if any yiras shomayim. The yiddishkeit taught is hollow and they cannot be considered a true frum school.

Please stop with the emotions. It is simply not possible to run schools without money. I think our schools have made plenty of mistakes leading to situations like this, but you simply cannot run a school without finances. Teachers need paid, materials need purchased. I have no doubt that the OP is being squeezed not out of cruelty, but of out of desperation because the policies to date are backfiring.

sima

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 12:06 pm

wow, sorry OP, I didn't read through the whole thread. But it just doesn't seem right that the schools can ask you for 42K in one year????!!! that is just out of this world!! Unless you are paying off previous years too. That's annual income for many of us. Anyhow, back to your daughter, where in NJ are you? If in Lakewood I know from friends that in the last minute every child will get placed into a school, and I would stress the fact that you have to send her to Ps if they don't work out something with you. If you are in the Teaneck area then idk what to tell you I know that everything there is insanely expensive. But I'm shocked nevertheless that they wouldn't work it out with you, that's just horrible.

amother

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 5:47 pm

amother wrote:

I know people who send to public school because of special need children. In that situation the child knows that it was done for his own good. I live in Los Angeles and here no child will be send to public school because of money. I can't imagine having one child in ps while the rest in yeshiva. I think you should just bite the pill and try to send your youngest to yeshiva. Go visit rabbanim and donors. Send letters and make phone calls. This is just not right.

I live in Los Angeles too, and I'm not sure who you know but there are quite a few children who go to public school because they can't afford private school. And yes, the administration knows, and yes, no one cares.

In Los Angeles, you say that there are cases of special needs children going to public school. I say, shame on the community that people accept it as their due. New York and other major cities all have Jewish schools for special needs children.

amother

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 8:31 pm

SRS wrote:

Actually, I am an administrator of a school and do not turn away children for lack of finances. It does not cost extra to take a child once the teacher is there being paid anyways. Money comes from Hashem's bracha and not by throwing a precious yiddishe neshomo in the street. If you will go investigate into these schools that do turn away children because of money (claiming that they need money to survive etc) you will discover that their level of Yiras Shomayim and ahavas yisroel is very little, if any at all. The children are raised with a version of yiddishkeit that is centered around self and nothing past that.

Surely there are other better frum schools in the area. If not, I would take them to task in a din torah, as there are legal and halachic issues in a community based school throwing out a child for money. As unpleasant as it is, it's worth it to save a life. Her neshama is being put into spiritual exile. The amount of negative influences the girl will experience cannot be known where it can lead her, regardless of any effort on her parents' part.

SYA

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 8:32 pm

SRS wrote:

SRS

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 11:49 pm

SYA wrote:

If not, I would take them to task in a din torah, as there are legal and halachic issues in a community based school throwing out a child for money.

I too am involved in schools and this comment strikes me as perplexing. I agree with you that schools have a responsibility to educating Jewish youth. But parents also have a responsibility to make good on their agreements. So parents should sue a school? Should schools also take parents to din torah when they get behind on their obligations? I'm just not litigious, so the idea of running to court puts a bad taste in my mouth.

I feel for the OP because she is a victim of a system that asks more and more money of fewer and fewer people. But let's understand that if a school is operating on the edge, as most frum schools are, when parents cannot make good on what they have committed to pay in tuition and on time, there is an entire back office crisis. The budget is thrown into a tailspin and it does threaten the very being of the school and the education it seeks to provide. Operating in a manner where you know that your staff will be paid on time, everytime is not a lack of yiras shomayim. Sadly, when a school becomes known as a place where tuition is fluid, the entire school is put at risk. I personally don't think 42K for 3 kids should do that, but I don't think we can judge the school on the few facts we know from the OP.

proudema

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 12:33 am

This whole thread is so sad. A Jewish child should never be in public school. There are stories of rabbanim begging parents to enroll their children in yeshivas and bais yaakov in the early days of America. The public schools then were 1,000 times better then what they are now and rabbanim still felt it was sakanos nefeshos to send a child there. I don't know where you live, but it's just awful that the school knows that u plan on sending to public school and still wouldn't help you out. I'm sorry you are in this situation. But I don't think your daughter belongs in public school. And it's horrifying to read so many poster's saying it's no big deal. I grew up in a very large family. My parents were dirt poor. Yet each one of us was in bais yaakov or yeshiva. They worked things out with the schools. And yes they are still paying tuition off and yes some years I had to wait to get my report card or admissions card, but bH we all received a Torah education in a Torah atmosphere. And my parents are reaping the nachas of what they worked so hard to plant for many years. I hope that in the end you are able to find a bais yaakov for your daughter. I will daven that you do.

TwinsMommy

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 1:09 am

I'm very happy with both my kid's public schools. The lack of limudei kodesh is my only beef with the schools. They don't eat non kosher food-- I pack their lunches. They don't go to events on Shabbos. They are exposed to students of all colors and faiths. I DO have an issue with the other frum kids in the neighborhood who make comments about my kids not being in the day school.

I'm "out of town" and if we had a special ed Jewish school my kids might go there--- but only if we could afford it. Putting your kids in a school you can't afford just doesn't make sense to me. We don't take vacations because we can't afford it. We don't have a cleaning lady or retirement savings because we can't afford it. We have $100,000 in debt because we have trouble affording life in general. We WILL pay our debts. But to take on more debt (or tzedakah!) to put our kids in private school doesn't make sense to me.

monseychick

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 9:00 am

proudema wrote:

I dont think you grew up in Lakewood/NY
That was also another time and place when all the schools were very sincere and motivated to work with you. Today most are very elitist, and simply dont really care. That is not a a Torah education in a Torah atmosphere.

OP, do whats right for your child, and ignore the Marie Antoinettes..

mille

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 9:46 am

What do you guys think happens in public school? Do you think these "fragile yiddishe neshomos" spontaneously combust when exposed to the "horrors" of public school?

The hysterics of talking about how this is "saving a life" is absurd to me.

The goal is to provide a Jewish education for your child. There is more than one way of providing a Jewish education. Yeshiva is not the only option. As someone already said in this thread, a good majority of Jewish education happens in the home, even for kids who go to Hebrew day school.

Beyond that, can you imagine what the OP is going through right now? She is clearly in a very, very difficult situation, has presumably tried everything possible, and clearly does not feel completely happy with her choice. Yet she must put food on the table, and this is the course of action to continue doing so. Yet, plenty of women are not commenting insinuating that she is killing her child, probably metaphorically, by not keeping her child in yeshiva day school at all cost (I mean, how else can you read that sending a kid to yeshiva is "saving a life"?? Or that public school puts them "out on the street"??). That she should just have more yiras shamayim and pay her yeshiva tuition first, before food, and just have faith that Hashem will provide the food later.

Would this thread be comforting to you? Would you feel like, despite your best effort to make it work, you are still a good mom who is doing what she can to provide for her children? Or would you feel attacked and criticized and like maybe you didn't try hard enough, because clearly the members of the peanut gallery have ten thousand solutions that you may or may not have tried yet? That sending to public school is the worst case scenario ever, and you are the worst mom for doing so? No one wants to hear that their child is in "spiritual exile". It's not nice, it's not helpful, and it's a silly thought at that.

Pita, Twinsmommy, and several amothers actually responded in a manner that I think OP was looking for -- reassurance that, despite the less-than-ideal situation, public school kids ARE just perfectly normal, wonderful kids. Alas, her kid will NOT spontaneously combust when she enters public school.

proudema

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 11:00 am

monseychick wrote:

I grew up in Brooklyn. Call me whatever names you like. This is a massive problem. It's not so simple as no money ok public school here we come. Did OP speak with her Rav? Did she go to other Jewish schools and beg them to work with her? Just listen to what Rabbi Mizrachi has to say about sending kids to public schools. My father is in chinuch and if he would hear of a Jewish kid in public school he would not rest until he convinced the parents to take the kid out and he would find a yeshiva who would take that child. You can poo poo it all you want. A child's neshama is worth more then a tuition. And yes, sending a child to public school can do untold damage to their neshama. This world is not about what's easy, easier or easiest. This world is about doing what's RIGHT. One thing if there's no Jewish schools anywhere near you, or if a child is special ed and needs the services the public school offers. It's a completely different story when the only factor is money. (And btw, your analogy to Marie Antoinette makes zero sense Rolling Eyes

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