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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Inappropriate parts: Gr8 book. Spinoff Harry Potter thread
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 3:34 pm
So, what DO you do when you love a book, (as I love Harry Potter) but you cringe at the thought of exposing certain parts to your kids? I have a fifth grader who is a total sci-fi geek. He loves series like The Familiars, the old Hardy Boys, anything science related. He's been begging me to read Harry Potter, but I don't love some of the scenes in book four and on.
Do you black them out? Full disclosure here: When I was a teenager and we had censored books in Bais Yakov I HATED it. Thought the school was so ridiculous and hypocritical. They censored JANE AUSTEN, for Heaven's sake (now they just don't teach it! Confused )
Now, I'm a mother. My kids are fairly temimusdik. We don't watch secular movies, for example, and I read all books before I let them read them.
Now, I'm kinda getting the whole censorship thing. Totally mind-blowing that I'm getting it. I just can't face giving my son Harry Potter and him reading all about the snogging. It feels like I'm doing something wrong.
I ALSO don't want to deprive him of reading Harry Potter. I think he'll love it. I think it's an interest we can share. So censorship is starting to look good.......My teenage self would be Rolling Eyes right now.
debs
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penguin




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 3:38 pm
I read everything before giving it to my kids. In the olden days I'd take out library books & paper clip together the pages I didn't want them to read. If there was too much objectionable material, I just didn't give them the book.

But then I started getting used books at flea market/garage sales, & I could black out/rip out as needed.

E.g. Indian in the Cupboard series, when you get up to the part where the auntie or grannie (forget which, it's a while ago) had a child out of wedlock, I edited so my child couldn't tell she wasn't a widow.

I am sure some will jump to condemn this insularity, but that's how we raised them and BH it seems to work well in my circles (I do make sure to send my girls to a kallah teacher who will thoroughly fill in all the missing pieces!)
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 3:46 pm
So you get where I'm coming from, Penguin! LOL about the kallah teacher. Not quite there yet, but good to keep in mind.
debs
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sunny90




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 3:53 pm
We read the first three HP books and my mother read us the fourth and fifth books (I was 12, my sisters were 10 and 8) editing when necessary. (Well, I'd read them myself before she ever managed to, but it was her thought that counted.)
By the time book 6 came out, I was 16 I think? and she had basically given up.
I don't really have any ideas, except maybe what not to bother doing?
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 4:00 pm
sunny90 wrote:
We read the first three HP books and my mother read us the fourth and fifth books (I was 12, my sisters were 10 and 8) editing when necessary. (Well, I'd read them myself before she ever managed to, but it was her thought that counted.)
By the time book 6 came out, I was 16 I think? and she had basically given up.
I don't really have any ideas, except maybe what not to bother doing?


Well, I own the books so I'd just black out the parts I don't want them to read. My kids don't have a library card. If they are THAT curious that they manage to buy it or get it in another kid's house - I'm not terribly concerned. I did my best to protect them. Kids being resourceful enough to get around that is G-d's problem! He created them smart. I can't wrap them in cotton wool, but I CAN do my best not to actually give them something I think is potentially harmful.
debsey
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kb




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 4:32 pm
When I was in twelfth grade we had a bunch of books we had to read. I didn't want to have to keep track of what book I needed in school when so I just took them out of the library to have for reading at home.

One specific book (I think Lord of the flies) I read, but when I opened up the book in school I saw a lot of blacked out words. So then I spent the entire period figuring out which "bad word" would fit in the space and context of each black mark. It seems so counterproductive because when I read it at home I didn't even notice any bad words!!
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 4:36 pm
kb wrote:
When I was in twelfth grade we had a bunch of books we had to read. I didn't want to have to keep track of what book I needed in school when so I just took them out of the library to have for reading at home.

One specific book (I think Lord of the flies) I read, but when I opened up the book in school I saw a lot of blacked out words. So then I spent the entire period figuring out which "bad word" would fit in the space and context of each black mark. It seems so counterproductive because when I read it at home I didn't even notice any bad words!!


I did the same thing with Jane Austen in 9th grade. And when it was phrases like "he glimpsed a well-turned ankle" I was quite puzzled as to why they had to be blacked out......... This is why I have some discomfort with doing this. But I just can't face giving my son the uncensored book!!!!
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kb




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 4:43 pm
My kids are not yet reading, so I still have some time to figure out what I think about this, but I think I'd say that either give the kids full exposure with a talk perhaps about that not everything that happens in the book is to the way we run our lives, etc...? Or don't give the book at all.
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zigi




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 4:54 pm
I like the book is falling apart and "missing a few pages"
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 4:54 pm
I thought the HP books were pareve enough. The movie was the problem.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 6:16 pm
zigi wrote:
I like the book is falling apart and "missing a few pages"

I don't want to lie to them. I want to say very clearly, "I loved these books. I think you will too. There are some parts I don't like. They are not essential to the story, just some inappropriate scenes. I'm gonna black them out. I trust that you won't try to figure out what I crossed out. If you do, totally your loss because in general, when I say something's not for you, at this point, you know I'm right. I know I can trust you and I can't wait to share this book with you. Deal?"
debs
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bigsis144




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 7:45 pm
debsey wrote:
I don't want to lie to them. I want to say very clearly, "I loved these books. I think you will too. There are some parts I don't like. They are not essential to the story, just some inappropriate scenes. I'm gonna black them out. I trust that you won't try to figure out what I crossed out. If you do, totally your loss because in general, when I say something's not for you, at this point, you know I'm right. I know I can trust you and I can't wait to share this book with you. Deal?"
debs


Honesty is the best policy! I like your speech, debs.

My father always told my siblings and me: "I've got three categories for you, "yes", "no" and "not yet". "Not yet" isn't no, it's just "yes, but not now"."

Very few things were absolute "no"s, and being told "not yet" showed that my parents trusted me to eventually make my own decision, and helped me wait a bit more patiently. Sometiimes, my father's answer would jokingly be "not until you're a Bubby" or something, but it still really made a difference not to hear strict "no"s all the time.
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spring13




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 10:14 pm
I don't think it's that unusual to say to a kid that he can read the first few books, but the rest are for after X age. Point out that Harry gets older, so the books get more mature. But pick an age where you're ready to let him read the whole book and let him know when that will be.

I'm not a fan of blacking out, I think it just titillates kids further and draws their attention to words or events that might not actually upset or harm them. Be careful about how dramatic you get in your attempts to shield. My parents were pretty permissive about reading. The one time my mother saw a book I took home from the library and told me that it was not appropriate, I didn't think twice about returning it unread. Because she didn't do that kind of thing often, I took her seriously when she actually did it. But if she had always been telling me I couldn't read something or trying to black stuff out, I would have either stopped reading altogether (ok maybe not that, but I'd have read a lot less) or made all kinds of effort to find out what things really said.
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 10:16 pm
debsey wrote:
I don't want to lie to them. I want to say very clearly, "I loved these books. I think you will too. There are some parts I don't like. They are not essential to the story, just some inappropriate scenes. I'm gonna black them out. I trust that you won't try to figure out what I crossed out. If you do, totally your loss because in general, when I say something's not for you, at this point, you know I'm right. I know I can trust you and I can't wait to share this book with you. Deal?"
debs


I was and still am an avid reader. I would hate this kind of "answer." It is so hypocritical (from a kid/teenager POV). Why was it ok for you to read and not them???!!!!
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amother


 

Post Wed, Jul 09 2014, 12:42 am
I remember telling DD she could read "Harriet and the Big Secret" in a few years.
And DS wanted to read Against the Wall, a frum novel about OTD kids. I wanted to wait til he outgrew a certain rather challenging stage because I was genuinely afraid the book would give him ideas. BH he did, and I gave him the book to read. (Not that he couldn't have easily gotten it elsewhere if he really wanted to...)
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 09 2014, 1:13 am
octopus wrote:
I was and still am an avid reader. I would hate this kind of "answer." It is so hypocritical (from a kid/teenager POV). Why was it ok for you to read and not them???!!!!

I agree a teenager could find it that way. I did when I was a teenager!
Then again, why can I drive and buy alcohol and not them? Because I'm an adult with life experience and the judgement to handle it. I'm saying, based on my life experience, this information on is not for you yet. I guess it comes down to trust. I DO trust my kids. And they DO trust me. They know I'm not doing it to be mean or hypocritical. If they circumvent me, it's really their loss.
I circumvented my mother once - I watched a horror movie she told me not to watch. BOY did I regret it!
I had many sleepless nights to reinforce the message - Mommy knows best! Wink
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Chana Miriam S




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 09 2014, 1:37 am
We have been reading the same books as each other since dd was ten. Obviously not every book, but we often coordinate our reading lists. Then we discuss. At one point we were all reading the same stuff. In any case it's like a family book club and we can discuss anything concerning. That said, she read hp when she was 8 and never even noticed any snogging.
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 09 2014, 8:37 am
Am I the only one who cannot think what in the world was wrong with harry potter? I feel like I should go and re-read them now!
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r_ch




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 09 2014, 9:12 am
oliveoil wrote:
Am I the only one who cannot think what in the world was wrong with harry potter? I feel like I should go and re-read them now!


Am with you. Maybe it's kissing? But doesn't it start only in the 6th book?
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rachel91




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 09 2014, 9:18 am
r_ch wrote:
Am with you. Maybe it's kissing? But doesn't it start only in the 6th book?


It starts in the 5th book. And he has a crush in the 4th book.
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