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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions
Inheritance
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 9:43 am
amother wrote:
I don't know anyone who split the inheritance the halachic way, even if they didnt have a halachic will in place. In my mothers family, every sibling got equal amounts and there was no halachic will. And they are all frum. It should be understood that no one deserves more just because they have a pe-nis.
rachel,it's never a good idea to rely on someone to be "nice" especially when it comes to money. Money unfortunately can bring out the worst in people and if someone is told they deserve more, well good luck getting them to give up their right to more. Best to split it evenly from the get go, regardless of sons or daughters.


In some circles it is common to split the money in a traditionally halachic manner. The way FS and I are using the term halachic will was a will that conforms to halacha but had a more contemporary distribution.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 10:23 am
My husband, who looked into this during his studies, tells me that nowadays even the frummest he is acquainted with do not disinherit girls or give double to the oldest. Though maybe local law is the reason.
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myname1




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 10:23 am
Quote:
In some circles it is common to split the money in a traditionally halachic manner. The way FS and I are using the term halachic will was a will that conforms to halacha but had a more contemporary distribution.


So I understand that there are these halachically acceptable ways to distribute the money evenly. But are there really circles today where it is common to split it in the way they speak about in Torah? Have you actually heard of it happening, and would you be willing to say where?
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amother


 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 10:47 am
myname1 wrote:
Quote:
In some circles it is common to split the money in a traditionally halachic manner. The way FS and I are using the term halachic will was a will that conforms to halacha but had a more contemporary distribution.


So I understand that there are these halachically acceptable ways to distribute the money evenly. But are there really circles today where it is common to split it in the way they speak about in Torah? Have you actually heard of it happening, and would you be willing to say where?


According to the poster rachel, she says she knows families where the sons got everything but were good (!) and gave to their sisters. In reality, I doubt this happens. Talk about asking for abuse of power. Either the sons keep everything or inheritance is given to all children.

I want to state that a halachic will is not done by everyone. It is still blatantly s-exist even if it doesn't disinherit daughters because it gives the oldest son the most. Orthodox families can split money evenly among the children without a halachic will.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 10:58 am
I heard that Rabbi Scheinberg zatzal (the famous one in Eretz Yisrael) left everything to his only son and left nothing to his daughters. It was announced at his levaya that he leaves everything to his only son (nothing to his daughters).

But Rebbetzin Altusky (one of his daughters) mentioned when she was giving a shiur for women, that when her father was alive, he told her that his brother would take care of her (or be good to her, I don't remember the exact language). and although she was a widow, her anniversary was still a happy day because it was the day of her marriage, and her father would always give her something on her anniversary (even though her husband was no longer alive) so after her father was gone, she notified her brother when her anniversary was coming up so that he should give her something like their father always did...
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rachel91




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 11:13 am
amother wrote:
According to the poster rachel, she says she knows families where the sons got everything but were good (!) and gave to their sisters. In reality, I doubt this happens. Talk about asking for abuse of power. Either the sons keep everything or inheritance is given to all children.

I want to state that a halachic will is not done by everyone. It is still blatantly s-exist even if it doesn't disinherit daughters because it gives the oldest son the most. Orthodox families can split money evenly among the children without a halachic will.


Huh? I wrote that I know of people who share (everyone gets the same amount).
And yes I know of a case where the brother gave his part (in this case 2 houses) to his sister, because she was in more need for them at that time. Halachically they still belong to him though. It's not that simple.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 11:21 am
rachel91 wrote:
Huh? I wrote that I know of people who share (everyone gets the same amount).
And yes I know of a case where the brother gave his part (in this case 2 houses) to his sister, because she was in more need for them at that time. Halachically they still belong to him though. It's not that simple.


You said of families where the son shares his inheritance. And several posters called you out for that because relying on someones kindness is very naive. You never said of everyone getting a piece equally.

Halachically the house might be his? Maybe. But legal law trumps halacha in inheritance. The sister could take her brother to court to get her fair share. Sometimes doing the right thing is different than what the halacha is.
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rachel91




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 11:28 am
amother wrote:
You said of families where the son shares his inheritance. And several posters called you out for that because relying on someones kindness is very naive. You never said of everyone getting a piece equally.

Halachically the house might be his? Maybe. But legal law trumps halacha in inheritance. The sister could take her brother to court to get her fair share. Sometimes doing the right thing is different than what the halacha is.


Well, luckily this sister will never even dream of taking her brother to court, because they enjoy a wonderful relationship. And he will never dream of taking her house away from her. So what's the point of going to court? Yes, such people excist!
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 11:29 am
amother wrote:
According to the poster rachel, she says she knows families where the sons got everything but were good (!) and gave to their sisters. In reality, I doubt this happens. Talk about asking for abuse of power. Either the sons keep everything or inheritance is given to all children.

I want to state that a halachic will is not done by everyone. It is still blatantly s-exist even if it doesn't disinherit daughters because it gives the oldest son the most. Orthodox families can split money evenly among the children without a halachic will.


A halachic will is a will that is correct according to halacha it may not be the traditional halachic distribution. Your use of the term is confusing.

You can make a halachic will as FS said and give away everything a moment before death. You can make a halachic will that puts everything in a punitive trust if the girls don't get the testator's distribution. It isn't defined by a distribution that gives the oldest boy double and the sisters nothing.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 11:36 am
rachel91 wrote:
Well, luckily this sister will never even dream of taking her brother to court, because they enjoy a wonderful relationship. And he will never dream of taking her house away from her. So what's the point of going to court? Yes, such people excist!


I can think of dozens of cases where the families weren't so kind. One case the son threw out the step mom from the marital home after promising to take care of her. Everyone one was so happy during life. He didn't even let her have the Shabbos silver. I can think of a few cases where siblings are at war.

People change when money is at stake. It is great your friend have his sister a house, but this is the exception.
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 1:22 pm
Squishy wrote:
A halachic will is a will that is correct according to halacha it may not be the traditional halachic distribution. Your use of the term is confusing.

You can make a halachic will as FS said and give away everything a moment before death. You can make a halachic will that puts everything in a punitive trust if the girls don't get the testator's distribution. It isn't defined by a distribution that gives the oldest boy double and the sisters nothing.


Yes, but we are referring to the automatic, default distribution that occurs when there is no will (very common not to have one).
Are the sisters not supposed to get anything? Or is there a loophole? Because I've never heard of such a case.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 2:13 pm
Squishy wrote:
I can think of dozens of cases where the families weren't so kind. One case the son threw out the step mom from the marital home after promising to take care of her. Everyone one was so happy during life. He didn't even let her have the Shabbos silver. I can think of a few cases where siblings are at war.

People change when money is at stake. It is great your friend have his sister a house, but this is the exception.


I wish I didn't know this from personal experience. Never would have dawned on any of us that my mom's sister would try to pull one over on us when their mother died--the two weren't close, but their relationship was always very respectful. Turns out our Aunt wasn't all that kind. We stopped her greediness before there were actual legal battles, but there were threats and divisiveness. (Please trust me when I tell you this was not about her financial needs, but her emotional ones.)

We've had no contact with her since, 13 years ago. I see my cousin, her son, and we do not talk about it.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 2:26 pm
Tablepoetry wrote:
Yes, but we are referring to the automatic, default distribution that occurs when there is no will (very common not to have one).
Are the sisters not supposed to get anything? Or is there a loophole? Because I've never heard of such a case.


Then call it the default distribution. A halachic will may or may not follow the default distribution. People tend to make halachic wills to avoid the default distribution.

By calling the default distribution a halachic will is confusing for the purposes of this thread. It is confusing IRL.

A square is a rectangle but for clarity call it a square. Call it the default distribution since at least three posters have used the term halachic will correctly on this thread.

Why use the term incorrectly? Someone may not realize the BD has the solutions available.

For the poster who asked. The halachic distribution is common in certain circles and the Rabbi from the BD shared with me certain cases in the BD regarding this issue.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 2:37 pm
Squishy wrote:
Then call it the default distribution. A halachic will may or may not follow the default distribution. People tend to make halachic wills to avoid the default distribution.

By calling the default distribution a halachic will is confusing for the purposes of this thread. It is confusing IRL.

A square is a rectangle but for clarity call it a square. Call it the default distribution since at least three posters have used the term halachic will correctly on this thread.

Why use the term incorrectly? Someone may not realize the BD has the solutions available.

For the poster who asked. The halachic distribution is common in certain circles and the Rabbi from the BD shared with me certain cases in the BD regarding this issue.
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 2:56 pm
rachel91 wrote:
Wow someone was very generous with hugs here Very Happy.

The thing is, I really don't know much abou inheritances, the only cases I know about were cases, where the brother(s) shared with their sisters.

To call me naive alltogether because of this is, well, not very nice.


I don't think you are naive. I think you are likely younger, and have yet to see what others have. that's lucky, not naive.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 6:29 pm
Dh's inheritance was split equally with all siblings including girls. There was no halachic will or regular will.
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doodlesmom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 9:01 pm
Tablepoetry wrote:
Yes, but we are referring to the automatic, default distribution that occurs when there is no will (very common not to have one).
Are the sisters not supposed to get anything? Or is there a loophole? Because I've never heard of such a case.


As far as I am aware there is a loophole, that since for legal purposes the girls have a share, and they would need to legally sign away their share, they can ask for a certain amount of money in exchange of their signature, usually according to the amount of the inheritance.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 9:06 pm
doodlesmom wrote:
As far as I am aware there is a loophole, that since for legal purposes the girls have a share, and they would need to legally sign away their share, they can ask for a certain amount of money in exchange of their signature, usually according to the amount of the inheritance.


Depends on the jurisdiction. In NY they don't have to sign.
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 11:37 pm
"double portion" doesn't mean double the inheritance. It means just an extra portion. So technically, a bechor can for example just get an extra piece of jewelry or furniture and that is considered "double." I have never met anyone that has actually done it according to jewish law vs secular law.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 1:18 am
Maybe that's why a lot of the daughters just steal the inheritance Crying
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