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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions
Better to not daven at all or daven immodestly dressed?
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amother


 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 8:47 pm
Of course its best to daven 100% tznius like I would walk outside. But I am not on that level and davening from a siddur is a struggle for me. (I do talk to Hashem in my own words throughout the day no matter how I am dressed)
I mostly work afternoons/ evenings and often dont get dressed till 1pm. I know I should get dressed earlier but its not gonna happen. I dont have AC, its hot hot hot and I only get dressed when I leave the house.
Is it better to daven in pajamas (I could put on a skirt and snood but I would still be wearing short sleeves and barefoot) or is it better not to daven at all?
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 8:49 pm
Better in pj's as long as the minimum is covered... And you can daven all the time doesn't have to be from a siddur.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 13 2014, 9:15 pm
No problem to daven immodestly dressed, that's what we learnt in our ultra chassidish school (ofcourse the principal said that's when you have no choice but still). The problem of Erva is only if a man wants to daven in your presence.
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baskrox




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 12:49 pm
I was told lifeguards could daven/make brachos in their bathing suits. It's not a problem.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 1:36 pm
ectomorph wrote:
Better in pj's as long as the minimum is covered... And you can daven all the time doesn't have to be from a siddur.

I guess my question is what is the minimum? The minimum I would wear outside or minimum covered by a bathing suit?
Can I wear a short sleeved t-shirt w/o a bra?
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 1:50 pm
I really don't remember too much about his. but I remember learning that when davening one should be wearing underwear to make a separation between the bottom and upper halfs - that is why men wear belts (besides to hold up their pants) and some wear gartels as well. I believe that is also why women cross their arms before making the bracha in the mikva - to create the separation between the upper and lower half of the body.
I remember learning that a bra should be worn to create the separation, but I don't know if that is all opinions, or if underwear alone is sufficient.
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mille




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 1:56 pm
I am not sure what a difference a bra would make. Some women don't wear bras at all, and bras are a much more modern invention. If you are wearing a shirt, why would you have to wear a bra?
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 2:49 pm
mille wrote:
I am not sure what a difference a bra would make. Some women don't wear bras at all, and bras are a much more modern invention. If you are wearing a shirt, why would you have to wear a bra?


I think the idea is to have something fitted so rounding the waist creating separation like a belt. You are right about things being a modern invention. That is why some men wear a gartel, because in the past there wasn't a separation that was part of dress so a gartel was used.
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 3:09 pm
G-d sees you in the shower
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mille




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:39 pm
amother wrote:
I think the idea is to have something fitted so rounding the waist creating separation like a belt. You are right about things being a modern invention. That is why some men wear a gartel, because in the past there wasn't a separation that was part of dress so a gartel was used.


Wouldn't the waistband of your skirt or pj pants sit around your waist? Your bra sits on your ribcage, right under the root of your breast tissue, generally about 5" higher than your natural waist. If your bra is sitting on your waist, you need a better fitting bra!

I have never heard that women need something akin to a man wearing a gartel. I mean, not every rabbi says men must wear a gartel or regular belt. I think this is faulty reasoning. I do not believe you must wear a bra, or a belt, or anything similar.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 5:20 pm
It is said in Gemora I think that women can daven, or at least say certain brochos, naked. I don't remember what exactly falls in this category and how it applies. Maybe I'm wrong, but there are leniencies for women.
I would think it is perfectly ok to daven "immodestly" dressed, to a certain extent, but nicer to make an effort to get a bit more dressed. There are many things you don't need to do halachically, but it's just nice to do them.
I guess that you can daven in your PJ, but maybe wear a snood for shmoneh esrei.
In any case, I think it would be better to ask your rabbi because there are different opinions. If people think you need to sleep with stockings, I guess in this case it is not ok at all to daven immodestly dressed.
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freidasima




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 5:32 pm
Heck half the time I daven in a housecoat and panties, nothing on mmy head and washing dishes. Yes when I get to shma I stop washing up and sit down and then get up for shmoneh esre.
Women dont need a garyel, they unlike men do not need a separation between their aiver and tush and the rest of their body. Halochically a womans whole body os one big erva actually as we give birth from below but nurse from above. All the same.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 7:40 pm
I heard in lecture that when hashem doesn't answer your tefillos, it's because you're not dresses modestly. You are standing in front of hashem.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 7:43 pm
I heard in lecture that when hashem doesn't answer your tefillos, it's because you're not dresses modestly. You are standing in front of hashem.
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 7:57 pm
You're allowed to make a Bracha fully undressed with just your privates covered, I don't know if davening I'd any different.

Last edited by ra_mom on Mon, Jul 14 2014, 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 8:02 pm
My family follows the opinion that married women must cover their heads for all brachot.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 8:02 pm
amother wrote:
I heard in lecture that when hashem doesn't answer your tefillos, it's because you're not dresses modestly. You are standing in front of hashem.

This is NOT what I needed to hear now. I already mentioned in the op that davening is a huge struggle.
Rebbitzen please do tell me why even when I davened 100% dressed Hashem still didnt send the yeshuah?????
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mille




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 8:09 pm
amother wrote:
I heard in lecture that when hashem doesn't answer your tefillos, it's because you're not dresses modestly. You are standing in front of hashem.


That's ridiculous.
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groovy1224




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 8:13 pm
amother wrote:
I heard in lecture that when hashem doesn't answer your tefillos, it's because you're not dresses modestly. You are standing in front of hashem.


That must be why Hashem didn't listen to the thousands upon thousands of tefillos to bring the boys back safely. Cuz we were all immodestly dressed. What a repulsive thing to say.

OP, obviously it's best to be dressed nicely when you daven; you are addressing the King after all, but trust me He wants you to talk to Him no matter what you are or aren't wearing. Many women would never daven if they had to be fully dressed first.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jul 14 2014, 8:21 pm
Ask your Rov.
I think the kitzur Shulchan orech addresses what to do if wearing same cloth during day that you slept in. Its interesting to know this info. its in section about morning conduct.
I would think that making an effort for Hashem as much as you can would be commendable.
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